Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2003/08/19
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]WARNING: Digital discussion, relating to the on-topic LC5 and Digilux 1. David: The bad press is mostly about the "posterization issue." Evidently the Lumix LC5 and Digilux have fairly aggressive image processing that can cause somewhat abrupt jumps in color or degree of grayness in smooth areas. Edges of things can also look oversharpened. I have seen this in some posted pictures. The LC5's processing is a bit more aggressive than the Digilux "out of the box." The effect can be minimized by setting the camera to low sharpening. There is also a firmware upgrade available from Panasonic USA (for US model cameras only) that will back off on the processing. Panasonic claims that the LC5 is optimized for printing rather than screen viewing, that they are emphasizing high frequency detail in a way that looks right when the ink hits the paper. This may be true, or it may be putting a positive corporate spin on a bad design decision. But I must say that a fair number of LC5 and Digilux owners have confirmed that when printed, their images look great--better than when viewed on the screen. A lot of the complaints are based on viewing a digital image at 100% or bigger on the screen. This may be great for spotting, but it is sort of like viewing a pointillistic painting with your nose to the canvas. You're seeing the points, but you're missing the point. As for noise, the short answer is that noise is the digital equivalent of grain. It can be random speckles of various colors or grey, or little "splotches" of color. Going to a higher ISO on a digital camera is just like turning up the volume on an audio amplifier--you may hear a soft signal better, but you also hear some hiss. With the CCD, you see more noise in the picture. Here's a link that shows the noise in photographs from several digicams, including the Leica Digilux: http://www.zonezero.com/magazine/dcorner/leica/leica.html# The Digilux and LC5 have the reputation for being great at ISO 100 and virtually unusable at ISO 400. I've seen a number of comparisons, and it does appear to have more noise than some. This may be affected by the sharpening agressiveness, so turning the latter down and sharpening in the image editor may be a way around some of this. I have read comments from some users that LC5 noise cleans up very easily in Neat Image. There's a thread on the Leica-Camera.com digital forum that mentions using low sharpening, contrast and saturation makes ISO 400 quite usable. All of the above is based on reviews, comments and posted samples I've read. I will see for myself when I get my LC5. The other aspect to the noise issue is that noise, like grain, shows up more as you magnify the picture. The bottom line is that all digicams are noisy at ISO 400, though some more than others. If you want that liquid, noiseless look at ISO 400, you really need to go to the professional DSLRs. The smaller sensors in the digicams are just noisier to begin with--less photons to compete with the random electrons flitting about. And the more megapixels they cram on those tiny sensors, the worse it gets. The original Steve's Digicams review that raised these issues is at: http://www.steves-digicams.com/2002_reviews/lumix_lc5_pg5.html You can find more discussion about all this, along with the usual Internet pontifications, at: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/forum.asp?forum=1001 and http://www.leica-camera.com/discus_e/messages/3/3.html?1061352336 Do a search on LC5 or Digilux plus either Posterization or Noise or Quality, and you'll find plenty of remarks. - --Peter At 07:59 PM 8/19/03 -0700, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 17:31:33 -0700 >From: David Young <dnr@horizon.bc.ca> >Subject: >Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030819172829.00b960f8@mail.horizon.bc.ca> >References: <200308191330.GAA05881@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us> > >Peter Klein wrote: > > >After much fondling of cameras and poring over manuals, I've just ordered > >a Lumix LC5 "Lika Leica." Thanks to all the bad press, they are available > >at fire-sale prices. > >First question. What is "all the bad press". I thought they were rated >pretty well! > > >*All* the prosumer digicams have glaring compromises. It's like the old > >business adage: "You can have cheap, fast, or good. Pick two. Maybe > >one." With the digicam, there are more factors: General image quality, > >high-ISO noise, viewfinder, shutter lag, feature set, ease of use, > >lensspeed, megapixels, zoom range. . . and on and on. > >Second Question. With a background in [retail] electronics, I have an >understanding of 'noise'. However, I've never played with a digicam of any >type. Can you tell me how high-ISO noise actually manifests itself in photos? > >But above all, enjoy your LUMIX! >- ---------- - -- To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html