Re: [Leica] Oh ... It's COMING SOON! :-)

["Gary Williams" <nasmformyzombie@mindspring.com>]

Subject: RE: [Leica] Oh ... It's COMING SOON! :-)
> > What you are missing is that the ND is an inferior product.

> When it was introduced, name a product in it's category it was inferior
to?
> No one else offered a full frame digital camera, Contax was the first.

So what if it was full frame!  In Kyocera's rush to have the first full
frame digicam they got it to market BEFORE IT WAS READY.

> It MAY be an inferior product to the highEST end offerings available now,
> but so is my $6k 486/25 notebook, and my $4.5k P133 notebook...  So what?
> It still, today, produces exceptional images, whether it's inferior or not
> to any other product.  And...it will, providing it still works in ten
years,
> produce exceptional images.

In 10 years it will be in the museum of photogaphic failures, a mere
footnote in the history of the digital revolution of the photogaphic
industry.

> > I can't fathom
> > except for product loyalty why you defend it.
>
> Yeah, but I have no product loyalty.  I admire the product, that is why I
> defend it, and your bashing of it is unfounded and unwarranted.
>
> > Of course you can take good
> > photos with it, the ND uses Zeiss glass.  But this does not mean
> > it's a good
> > product.
>
> Sure it does.

I won't even comment on this, it's like saying if you put a fine wine in a
cracked glass, it make the glass ok.

> > But by any measure of cost to performance, its performance
> > compared to the performance of its competition (Canon 1D) it is woefully
> > outclassed, an inferior product in a very unforgiving marketplace.

> Oh, I see...the Canon 1Ds was out when the Contax N Digital was?  I wasn't
> aware of that.  I was only aware of the Canon D-30 being out at the
> introduction of the N Digital...and after the release of the N Digital the
> D-60 came out...and some, nearly 18 months later, the D1s...

> > But
> > don't take my word for it.  The marketplace has spoken, and the ND is
for
> > all intents and purposes dead.
>
> So what?  That still has no bearing what so ever on it's status as an
> exceptional camera.  By your definition, a Ferrari BB512 was a failure.

What does Contax digital have to do with Ferrari?  The ND may be an
"exceptional" camera in your eyes but in the market place it's a pariah.  I
suppose that is another form of exceptional.


> > I took this position BEFORE the ND camera was
> > introduced.  It's based on a deeply flawed model, which means
> > it's a deeply
> > flawed product.
>
> Well, to put it bluntly, bullshit.

You cogent and penetrating insight is overwhelming me.

> > Not even Nikon has been able to hold its position in the
> > marketplace with an inferior high end digital product
>
> Well, thousands of photographers are using Nikon digital cameras, and they
> seem to be doing well with them.
>
> > (many Nikon loyalist
> > pros have moved to Canon, at one time unthinkable)
>
> True, but that is for other reasons, like Nikon service is arrogant and
> unresponsive and unreasonable.
>
> > Contax does not have
> > anywhere near the user base that Nikon has, so what's to prevent
> > the ND from
> > sinking the Contax ship?
>
> Obviously, you have no clue about product development.  I do.  I've been
> developing quite complicated electronic products for, oh, 25 years.  This
is
> Contax's first digital SLR.  It's bound to have problems.  In fact, I'd
say
> they did an exceptional job, as it really had few problems for how complex
> it is.  You would not understand that though.  Even autofocus went through
> this problem cycle, which is typical of a FIRST revision product.


At last a clue as to your irrational defense of  the ND.  Product
development!  It was your ilk that bungled the ND!  "Bound to have
problems."  NONSENSE.  Canon has had digital product out for how many years?
And Canon had enough business sense not to rush its full frame digicam to
market before it was ready.  I have over 25 years in the business
world---the real world which you apparently know little about.  You are
looking at the ND in abstract, as some kind of wonderous creation, but the
point is in the hard glare of reality as a product in the marketplace it
will go down as one of the all time failures in the photography game.  The
ND is to photo what the Edsel was to cars.  Stand behind your ilk if you
like, but the ND may well spell the end of Contax as we know it.  Contax was
shaky before the ND, which explains in part the rush to get it out.  What's
going to get Contax out of the toilet?  The ND-2 building on the success of
the ND?

> > Again, the only thing exceptional about the ND is how poorly it has been
> > received and how much the investment in it has evaporated in such a
short
> > period of time.
>
> That's idiotic.  EVERY digital camera has lost it's "investment" in such a
> short period of time, this has nothing to do with Contax.
>
> You are obviously searching for ways to make Contax a villain.
>
> Austin

Austin, nothing in the digital arena has evaporated faster than the value of
the ND. NOTHING.  Retailers don't even stock the ND any more.  B&H does not
have it on its website in any form, not even as a special order item.
Contax pulled the plug on the ND several months ago.  I saw a used ND today
on-line for $3495.  I am not tying to make anyone a villain, just point out
real world facts, not some abstract pie in the sky product development thing
that you are holding on to.

As a business person I will say it again, the marketplace has spoken on the
ND.  Not even Contax stands behind it now, why don't you get out of the way
before it falls on you.  Right now you look awfully silly defending a
photographic Edsel.

Gary

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