Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2003/03/03

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Subject: Re: Auction site (WAS: [Leica] The new MP is out for auction)
From: "Nathan Wajsman (private)" <>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 16:48:11 +0100
References: <> <>

I really do not understand the contempt some people feel for ebay. It is 
  a great tool for buying and selling stuff that would otherwise be 
virtually unattainable. I recently bought a Pentacon Six medium format 
camera and 3 lenses; the camera and the normal lens came from a guy in 
the Ukraine, the wide angle lens from a guy in the Czech Republic, and 
the long lens from a guy in Poland. I could have spent 6 months scouring 
all the used camera dealers in Zurich and would not have found these 
items, and certainly not for the price I paid.

As for the idea that buying a piece of equipment (even as fine a piece 
as a Leica) should be a lifetime commitment, I cannot agree either. It 
is precisely because Leica equipment takes some getting used to that 
just borrowing a piece from a dealer for a day (assuming that you have a 
dealer who will lend you one) is not going to provide you with enough 
experience. I bought a 0.58 M6 in 2000, thinking that it would just the 
ticket for my 24mm lens (ignoring the framelines), but after several 
months I realized that it was not working for me--I had to squint around 
the viewfinder and ended up putting the external finder on the camera 
anyway. So I sold it (not on ebay, but still remotely). Likewise, I 
decided after 2 years of owning an M3 that lugging an external meter in 
my Domke bag was not something I wanted to do anymore, so I sold it and 
bought a Bessa R2 as my third body. When I wanted a 50mm lens, I first 
bought an old Summilux, then traded it for a new Summicron, added a 
Noctilux, before deciding that I only wanted one 50mm lens and selling 
the Summicron and the Noctilux in favor of a new Summilux. In each case 
I owned the lens in question for at least a year. I see nothing wrong 
with adjusting my equipment over time to my changing needs and 
preferences. It is after all the pictures that count, no?


Mark Rabiner wrote:

> I find the idea contemptuous.
> I think people should buy a camera and take pictures with it. Die with
> it. That's the full cycle of the thing.
> It's not a baseball card.
> Pass it on to your grandchildren. I think that's what a tool Like a
> Leica M camera is all about.
> It stays in your family for a few generations.
> I've got a nephew I've never met just signed up for photography courses
> at Columbia University in New York City.
> I'm leaving him quite a few zero's worth of cameras in my will.
> The kids barely heard of me. For all I know they've kept me a secret. I
> hope he gives the Leicas a fair shot before he sells them to buy more Nikons...
> or a Chevy Bronco.
> Buy a camera, marry it. Get to know all it's nuances.
> These people who trade systems every year - ASK TO SEE THEIR PRINTS!
> Half the time they won't have any at all the other half it will be a
> stupid short stack of un-edited 4x6 machine prints.
> The sad fact i feel that most people don't realize
> is that once people buy a camera; there's nothing left to do but to take
> pictures with it.
>  The game is over. It's a tool. You bought it you use it.
> It's a shame when the thrill comes from the buying and selling and not
> the using.
> This buying and selling; buying and selling is not photography.
> And as this list is called the Leica USER group. Not Leica BUYER AND
> SELLER Group, it's not what we are all about.
> But if we run out of money we just SELL SOMETHING ON EBAY (almost as
> much fun as buying) and that frees up more loot to then BUY SOMETHING ON
> EBAY. So we can keep it for a month and a half.
> We had "Guilt" in a tread heading even though it was mostly talking
> about something else.
> The "Guilt" of buying an expensive camera like a Leica and especially
> Leica because it's low tech approach would apparently not justify the expense.
> The me the "Guilt" comes from not using the camera. Months later having
> few prints to show for it or slides. I see guilt in that.
> I cant see any "Guilt" coming from a camera one carries around every day
> -- at any price.
> But i do see "Guilt" from complaining about it to give an excuse to
> trade it in for a new toy a short time later.
> "I think the Canon lenses are better, I'm going Canon"
> Me I don't enjoy buying stuff. Makes me very nervous. I sweat blood when
> ever i have to spend more than a grand on something. Pink stuff rolls
> down my forehead.  And I try to buy stuff as close to home as possible
> and from people (camera stores) which already know me. ...a repeat
> customer. That way if it DOES screw up I come back there and slap it
> down on the counter. And expect another one which works on the spot.
> Don't suck us into auction threads folks!  
> Money money money. Greed, Avarice, dilettantism.
> We need to get back to owning what is ours. Taking care of it properly.
> And see what it really can do for us.
> As the Ebay mentality takes over more and more our overall concept of
> ownership completely fades. We never own anything. We are just playing
> auction games with it. Have we enjoyed using it as much as we've enjoyed
> buying and selling it?
> But more importantly. Have we given the thing a fair shot? I think the
> people who designed and built it, marketed it and sold it deserve at
> least that.
> Mark Rabiner
> Portland, Oregon USA
> Email:
> Fax: 503-221-0308
> --
> To unsubscribe, see

- -- 
Nathan Wajsman
Herrliberg (ZH), Switzerland

mobile: +41 78 732 1430

General photo site:

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Replies: Reply from "Phil Leeson" <> (Re: Auction site (WAS: [Leica] The new MP is out for auction))
In reply to: Message from "Beddoe, Neil" <> (RE: [Leica] The new MP is out for auction)
Message from Mark Rabiner <> (Re: [Leica] The new MP is out for auction)