Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2002/06/12

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Subject: Re: [Leica] Report on putting in a digital darkroom....
From: "Dr. Elliot Puritz" <drpuritz@bellsouth.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 21:40:51 -0400
References: <20020612234354.19304.qmail@web11104.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks Darrell.

Please share some of the images with us.  I am sure we can all learn as you
progress, and teach us some tricks of the trade...

I have yet to take the plunge into digital dark room yet.  I think I will
buy the Digilux, and I suppose the next logical step is to try my hand at
Photoshop, etc.  Very costly I see.

Elliot
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Darrell Jennings" <darrell_jennings@yahoo.com>
To: <leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us>
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Leica] Report on putting in a digital darkroom....


> Sure, prices are pretty public on this stuff.
>
> The PC was $2900 with an 18" flat screen monitor
> (looked at a Dell and a build it myself option, the
> Dell was $800 more and had a 19" monitor, the build it
> myself was about the same as the Gateway. The printers
> were $1800 (for the two of them new)...you can buy
> these used on eBay for a lot less, but this is old
> technology and I was concerned about the condition of
> what I would get as it might have been used in an
> office or seen really heavy duty (and especially since
> there were so many things that were not officially
> supported, so new it was). The Photoshop I got as an
> upgrade for $229 because I had Photoshop Elements
> packaged with my scanner.  The scanner was about $375.
> The Genuine Fractals come in two flavors one for about
> $200 and one for about $300 depending on which version
> of 2.5 you get....or if you have GF, as Tim pointed
> out the upgrades are very reasonable.
>
> The inks, software and a few packs of paper (about 150
> sheets of 8.5x11 and 100 of 17x22) was pretty
> expensive at about $1,700. Of this a little over $700
> was for the software so was a one time expense.  They
> tell me the inks last a long time...I hope so.
>
> All told with equipment, software, paper, inks, racks
> to put it on, lights to shine in the printers so I can
> see to clean them, etc. it was about $7,500.
>
>
> --- "Dr. Elliot Puritz" <drpuritz@bellsouth.net>
> wrote:
> > Thanks Darrell.
> >
> > Would it be impolite to ask for some sort of
> > estimate as to cost for such a
> > project?
> >
> > Elliot
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Darrell Jennings"
> > <darrell_jennings@yahoo.com>
> > To: <leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us>
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 5:09 PM
> > Subject: [Leica] Report on putting in a digital
> > darkroom....
> >
> >
> > > I mentioned a few days ago that I would get back
> > with
> > > a posting on my experience putting in a digital
> > > darkroom over the past 10 days.
> > >
> > > I used Tina Manley's set up as a bench mark, and
> > > installed:
> > >
> > > -Gateway 700 series Windows XP with 2.36GHz
> > Pentium 4
> > > with a 120 Gig hard drive.
> > > -Photoshop 7.0
> > > -Genuine Fractals 2.5
> > > -(2) Epson 3000 printers
> > > -(2) Epson supplied parallel to USB cables
> > > - Epson 2450 scanner
> > > - An old HP Laser Jet for printing plain text
> > > documents.
> > > -John Cones Quad Black inks with the custom Cones
> > > Plugin for Photoshop.
> > > -Generations Color inks with Cones profiles for
> > the
> > > various Cones supplied papers.
> > >
> > > The driving item in this was the desire to use the
> > > Cones and Generations inks and their
> > plugin/profile
> > > software. I would probably have gone with an
> > Apple,
> > > but the Cones plugin was having trouble in the Mac
> > OS
> > > X environment and PS7 that they were not having in
> > PS7
> > > and XP (though PS7 is still not officially
> > supported
> > > on either platform).
> > >
> > > I discovered that one of the major concerns facing
> > > anyone wanting to get a digital darkroom is the
> > issue
> > > of compatability.
> > >
> > > All the vendors only sell their "current"
> > > product...none will sell you their previous
> > release
> > > unless you happen to find a retailer that has an
> > old
> > > one sitting around. None of the programs you buy
> > (or
> > > hardware for that matter) will "officially" work
> > with
> > > anything but the previous releases.  Bottom line
> > is
> > > that you can not buy a digital darkroom from
> > scratch
> > > with "offical" support.
> > >
> > > ...Luckily reality is not quite that bad. I never
> > had
> > > my request for tech support turned down because
> > "we
> > > don't support that yet"...
> > >
> > > I now have everything working (with the exception
> > of
> > > having to wait for a new release of Quad Black
> > inks
> > > that are supposed to be here tomorrow).
> > >
> > > The big problems were.
> > > 1. Getting the Epson 3000's to work using Epson
> > inks
> > > (a requirement BEFORE you install the Cones inks).
> > > Issues were: (a)my confusion over the fact that XP
> > > adds printer drivers if you don't use the default
> > > drivers that come in XP...so you appear to have
> > four
> > > Epson 3000 printers instead of two; (b) using USB
> > > ports to run the printers (some at Epson said no
> > > problem, others disagreed...in the end USB worked
> > if
> > > you buy the Epson cable at $40 each);and, (c)the
> > > biggie...getting Cones Wells River paper to feed
> > > through the printers (a trip to the local Epson
> > repair
> > > facility and instruction on cleaning the feeder
> > "feet"
> > > from a kindly technician fixed it). Seems that (at
> > > least the box that I got) Wells River paper has a
> > lot
> > > of residue on it and requires the printer feeders
> > to
> > > be cleaned with Q-Tips about every three
> > > prints...think I'll switch to another paper when
> > this
> > > box is done. And to be fair...if you brush the
> > paper
> > > before feeding it you only have to clean the
> > printer
> > > about every 10 prints.
> > >
> > > 2. Clogged print heads from the Cones Quad Black
> > inks.
> > >  First print looked nice, but needed a bit of PS
> > > tweaking to bring up the contrast.  Second print
> > was
> > > outstanding.  Third print...heads were clogged.
> > > Multiple cleanings, "Windexing" the heads over
> > night,
> > > reloading Cones cleaning fluid twice, and finally
> > > reloading the original Epson inks and then the
> > Cones
> > > cleaning fluid again have cleaned out the clogs.
> > Cones
> > > have just brought out new (this week) Quad Black
> > inks
> > > that are supposed to be much less prone to
> > clogging
> > > and I should get my replacements tomorrow.
> > >
> > > 3. Documention on the Generations inks needs to
> > > improve. A 10 minute call to tech support at Ink
> > Jet
> > > Mall and my prints went from bad to great, but a
> > few
> > > pages of text telling me what the support guy
> > covered
> > > would help.  The documentation is generally
> > written
> > > around a slightly differnent Epson printer and
> > > different Epson driver...makes it tough to follow,
> > and
> > > still doesn't cover what you need to know to get
> > the
> > > print done.
> > >
> > > Overall I am happy with the results.  If you plan
> > to
> > > implement something like the above, plan on
> > spening
> > > quite a bit of time (in my case over a week at 4
> > to 8
> > > hours a day) getting everything hooked up,
> > > loaded/tested/reloaded, and reading enough of the
> > > documentation to at least get started. Also plan
> > on:
> > > (a) a steep learning curve if you (like me) had
> > very
> > > limited experience with PS and digital imagaging,
> > and;
> > > (b)lots of experience learning to clean print
> > heads
> > > and feeder "feet" on the 3000. If you use a
> > different
> > > Epson printer your experience may be a bit
> > differnt. I
> > > went with the 3000 both on Tina's recommendation,
> > and
> > > because it holds up to 17X44 inch paper.
> > >
> > > Finally, I'd like to thank Tina, Sonny, and
> > several
> > > others on the list that helped me out over long
> > hours
> > > of trying to get this stuff to work.
> > >
> > > I'd be happy to help anyone attempting this for
> > the
> > > first time with anything I learned in the process.
> > > I'm sure no expert, but I did enough stuff wrong
> > to
> > > have picked up a few tips on the front end. DJ
> > >
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>
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In reply to: Message from Darrell Jennings <darrell_jennings@yahoo.com> (Re: [Leica] Report on putting in a digital darkroom....)