RE: [Leica] Re: Photoshop dilemma

[Darrell Jennings <darrell_jennings@yahoo.com>]

If the purpose of the image is anything other than art
I agree.  I would not want faked images used to
influence public opinion, political or commercial
activities without being either labeled as such.  Or
if not labeled, being so obvious that anyone would
recognize the alteration for what it was. I would
argue that a labeled photograph is still a photograph,
but that is my opinion...

I think from your previous post you are a lawyer, and
while I wound up in technology businesses, I started
out as an art major...probably well suited to have us
look at this from two very different points of view. 

- --- "B. D. Colen" <bdcolen@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Pretty scary. As the Kyle's employer - the Dean of
> the Annenberg School of
> Communication, was quoted pointing out in the story,
> there are actually
> people who still believe the first moon landing was
> faked: imagine what this
> "giant leap for mankind" will let lose. ;-)
> 
> BTW, Darrell, the fact that we are making this kind
> of progress with our
> visual technology is precisely why I am so adamant
> in my believe that what
> is not real/genuine/etc. should be labeled as such.
> 
> B. D.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> [mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us]On
> Behalf Of Darrell
> Jennings
> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 9:17 AM
> To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> Subject: RE: [Leica] Re: Photoshop dilemma
> 
> 
> Ah yes, and next the "Holodeck"...is it real or is
> it
> Memorex?  Any technology that can be used for good
> can
> also be used for ill....
> 
> --- "B. D. Colen" <bdcolen@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > I sure care - not that that surprises you: not so
> > much that it's a rewrite
> > of history as that it is a really appalling
> > cheapening of King's legacy.
> > This is not like using a rock icon's song to sell
> > cars, or the image of Fred
> > Astair's dancing on the ceiling being used to sell
> > vacuumed cleaners. This
> > is, rather, using a film clip of the most
> important
> > speech by the most
> > prominent leader of the civil rights movement to
> > sell the image of a
> > corporation. And not only is it taking the speech
> > totally out of context, it
> > is doing something that we can assume, based on
> his
> > record, King himself
> > would never have done, or approved of.
> >
> > But I have to say that while I am a huge fan of
> > King's - although I believe
> > that to some degree his role in the movement was
> > overblown - I am no fan of
> > the King family for the way they have
> commercialized
> > "the legacy" since his
> > death.
> >
> > Martin Luther King, Jr., was and should always
> > remain one of those rare
> > individuals throughout history whose person, and
> > legacy, belong to "the
> > people," rather than to his family.
> >
> > But that's just my opinion.
> >
> > BUT...if the King thing bothers you, wait until
> you
> > read what I'm sure will
> > be the AP pickup - and everyone else's rereporting
> -
> > of a story that ran in
> > this a.m.'s Boston Globe. Worried about the
> > photoshop alteration of still
> > photos? Fagedaboutit! MIT researchers have
> "taught"
> > a computer to produce
> > absolutely believable video footage of people
> saying
> > things they never said.
> > In other words, they can put words in someone's
> > mouth, show the footage to
> > test subjects, and have the test subjects unable
> to
> > tell the real footage
> > from the doctored footage. At this point they can
> > only do it with footage of
> > people speaking directly to the camera - as the
> > President does in one of his
> > addresses ;-) - but they are sure they will be
> able
> > to improve the
> > technology to the point where the angle won't
> > matter. What does all this
> > mean? That in the very near future we will be
> unable
> > to tell doctored video
> > from real video, and if footage of, say, a
> > Presidential candidate turns up
> > with the candidate saying something embarrassing,
> we
> > will never know whether
> > it is real, or a "dirty trick."
> >
> > B. D.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> > [mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us]On
> > Behalf Of George
> > Lottermoser
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 7:42 PM
> > To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> > Subject: RE: [Leica] Re: Photoshop dilemma
> >
> >
> > abridge@idea-processing.com (Adam
> > Bridge)5/13/0211:47 AM
> >
> > > Thus cutting Lenin out of an
> > > image breaks the one for one relationship with
> the
> > original
> > photograph. Or
> > > moving a pyramid. Or adding several images from
> > other sources.
> > >
> > > Once the one-for-one is lost I contend that the
> > final work is
> > no longer a
> > > photograph. It's something else: a graphic art
> > perhaps.
> >
> > Apparently the owners of the Martin Luther King
> > estate have seen
> > fit to sell his words as well as images of him -
> for
> > advertising
> > messages. So we can now seem him making the
> "famous
> > speech" in a
> > totally new context and environment and hear the
> > words edited to
> > new purpose. Personally I see this as a rewrite of
> > history and
> > without integrity. These rewrites will affect a
> new
> > generation's
> > perception of history. Does anyone care? I do. Sad
> > way to make a
> > profit.
> >
> > George
> >
> >
> > --
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> >
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> 
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