RE: [Leica] Re: calling on the LUG to do a good deed: leica scholarship

["B. D. Colen" <bdcolen@earthlink.net>]

No, Karina, it is not equally correct to say that as many Americans live in
poverty as live well...If by "well" you mean those at the top of the
economic heap, then in fact far more live in poverty than live well....But
if by living well you mean own their own home or renting a nice place, going
on a vacation every year, eating the foods they want to eat, wearing the
clothes they want to wear, owning many of the things they want to own, etc.
etc....then no, those in poverty do not equal those living well...

As to poverty in Australia, I've never been so I can't speak to the
conditions in Perth. I would guess, however, that if one gets out of the big
cities in Australia one can find some pretty mean rural poverty....no?

And I would also guess that you folks have - and pay for through taxes - far
better aids for the poor than we have.

please don't get me wrong - I am NOT saying America is perfect - far, far
from it. We do a really lousy job of providing help for the 10s of millions
of people - out of our 260something million people - who need it...I'm just
saying that, in general, things are economically pretty good here.

B.D.

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
[mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us]On Behalf Of
kiklaas@iinet.net.au
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 9:04 PM
To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: RE: [Leica] Re: calling on the LUG to do a good deed: leica
scholarship


B.D.

My experience was merely an observation - and there appeared to be a big
gap in my mind as to what I was expecting and what I found in reality.
I have seen poverty in its extreme - like you said South Africa would be a
good example - I was prepared for that - I was, however, not prepared for
what I encountered in San Fran.

I think it would be fair to say that of lot of Americans live really well
but it would be equally correct to say that just as many do not.

My daughter was giving me the statistics on wealth distribution for the US
and those figures confirm a high rate of poverty.

If you think your standard of living is great in the US - I would love to
drive you around our "poor areas" in Perth - it will make yours look like
a third world country.

Karina



> Not to be defensive - but MOST Americans do live reasonably well - in
fact,
> MOST Americans live extremely well when compared to most of the
population
> in many of the nation's of even Western Europe (And I am talking to
economic
> standards of living here, not debating 'spiritual poverty, yadah yadah
> yadah' ;-). And, compared to the poor in the third world, the non-
homeless
> poor in America live very well. (Which is not an excuse or defense of the
> inexcusable numbers of homeless and pathetically poor in the US - only an
> observation regarding what we in the US call poverty and poverty in other
> places).
>
> But it really is tiring to have folks from other nations with, Lord
knows,
> their own poverty, racism, etc., arrive here and say, 'oh my God! Look at
> those homeless people. I thought Most Americans lived relatively well,'
as
> though America's homeless made up most of our population.
>
> B. D.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> [mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us]On Behalf Of Karina
> Klaas
> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 2:38 AM
> To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> Subject: Re: [Leica] Re: calling on the LUG to do a good deed: leica
> scholarship
>
>
> Actually, I found the the extent of homelessness in San Francisco quite a
> shock - I stayed in a hotel in Market Street and was quite shocked at
what I
> saw.  (Having just
> flown out of South Africa on this particular trip, that says a lot in
> itself).
>
> That is not to say homelessness down not exist in Australia but having
never
> visited thte States before my preconceived notion of what to expect
formed
> on the basis of the  movies and TV watched, my impression, wrongly, was
that
> most Americans lived reasonably well.  I asked my friend, whom I was
> visiting at the time where the poorer areas were - she lived in Santa
> Monica, and she responded there weren't any - she must have had her head
in
> the sand because I caught a Greyhound (not like they are in the movies -
> another shock in itself) to San Fran and started noticing these areas
during
> the drive on the way.
>
> Karina
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Matthew Powell <mlpowell@directvinternet.com>
> To: <leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us>
> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 2:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [Leica] Re: calling on the LUG to do a good deed: leica
> scholarship
>
>
> >
> > On Sunday, April 28, 2002, at 12:39 AM, Allan Wafkowski wrote:
> >
> > > What I said was the the fellow was going to pay about $28,000 a year.
> > > That statement appears to be true in fact, does it not? You don't
> > > remember me itemizing the numbers, do you? No, of course not. But
this
> > > is all beside the point. The point is that a young man paying
$28,000 a
> > > year to go to school, and owning (one assumes) a Leica camera is not
> > > going to qualify for the LUG most needy student scholarship.
> > No, that's the point. He's not paying $28,000 a year to go to school.
> >
> > He's paying, assuming he's technically considered out of state, about
> > $12k/year to go to school. The rest is living expenses which would be
> > incurred whether he is or not.
> >
> > For instance, rent, insurance, car payment (necessary here in North
> > Texas, where public transit doesn't exist) are about $12,000/year, and
> > my tuition is a little under $4k. I'm not paying $16k to go to school.
> >
> > I mean, we're really arguing semantics here, but saying the guy is
> > paying that much to go to school is misleading.
> >
> > >  I can name three AIDS patients who can't afford their monthly
> > > medication and who don't receive Medicaid. I know an old lady who
eats
> > > bread sandwiches (that's two slices of bread with nothing in between)
> > > because she runs out of food at the end of each month. I know two
> > > mentally ill brothers who live on $17,000 a year between them.
> > As do most of us, or people in similar situations. The solution is not
> > to take the frustration out on one man for going to Berkeley.  The
> > solution, for these, is to work for nationalized healthcare, like the
> > rest of the civilized world.
> >
> > > Before I piss myself off, let me ask you: Do you really think I want
> > > at least a $1,000 gathered for a student to go pester homeless people
> > > in another country because the homeless people in California aren't
> > > exotic enough?
> > Actually, I'm quite in agreement with you that tackling the homeless
> > situation here is a worth goal. I understand the plight of the homeless
> > to have become quite dire in San Francisco, having been herded away
from
> > several public areas they used to inhabit. I also favor Stephen Gandy's
> > idea, and will be donating whatever I can should it come through.
> >
> > But, being a full-time collge student and full-time server/bartender, I
> > took issue with your characterization of the $28k being solely for
> > schooling.
> >
> > --
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> >
>
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