Re: [Leica] Canada build vs German build

[SthRosner@aol.com]

marc - getting smaller:

you simply insist on putting your foot in your mouth and then compounding 
your sin by jamming it down your throat. Put another way, you seem to love 
teeing up your jaw and inviting me to mangle your face all up. It appears 
that whenever you see Seth - or Rosner - you respond  as though to a muleta. 
You should bear in mind that in the overwhelming number of instances, the 
bull gets a curved blade thrust in the back of his neck that bends downward 
and pierces his heart and he bleeds to death, an ignoble way for a noble 
beast to die. Not that you are that sort of beast.

The difference between the muleta and me is that I am not deliberately 
taunting you (as you do me and many others on this list) but merely pointing 
out errors in your statements when I see them. 

marc, we should be able to have honest differences of opinion without your 
habitual snide nastiness. We can also differ on matters of fact, but a fact 
is a fact and if we differ, one of us will be right and the other wrong. I 
think I have even acknowledged being wrong on this list, something I do not 
ever recall from you.

In a message dated 3/23/02 1:53:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, msmall@infi.net 
writes:
> At 11:07 PM 3/22/02 EST, SthRosner@aol.com wrote:
>  >My post made no personal reference to you whatever, save to point out 
your 
>  >mistake.

>  Uh, Earth to Planet Seth?  Whether you made reference to me is irrelevant.

....... wasn't irrelevant to me; my point was that I didn't taunt you but 
then you have amply demonstrated that you have the sensitivity of a ..........

>  Your original post is bunk.  I stated that Leitz never had a glass factory;
>   you posted, with appropriate harumphs, several citations that proved Leitz
>  never had a glass factory. 
>  
>  Seth, Leitz nor Leica has ever had a glass factory.  Whatever is the
>  problem in this?  To the rest of us, the distinction between a research
>  facility (laboratory or, in the regions of the US outside of your domain,
>  "lab") and a production facility (we call them factories but your
>  Harvard-educated intellect probably has some fancier phrase) is plain.
>  Gosh, but there really IS a difference between a lab and a factory.  If you
>  don't KNOW the difference, and if G C. Merriam Webster cannot educate you
>  on the difference between this difference, come on down to Virginia,
>  brother. 

...........some of the finest lawyers I know and some of my best friends 
practice law in Virginia. It goes without saying that you are not among them 
on either count.


>  We are probably just plain hickseeds in your New York mind --
>  but, gosh, we DO have some cutting-edge optical labs locally (the ITT Night
>  Vision Lab is five miles from me as I write these admittedly exasperrated
>  words) and we hickseeds can generally understand the difference between
>  FACTORY and LABORATORY.  
>  
>  Seth:  Leitz had a glass laboratory.  They closed this around 1986.  Leitz
>  never had a glass factory.  Leica has never had a glass factory.  If you
>  have any knowledge that Leitz or Leica has owned, managed, controlled (in a
>  legal sense, you Harvard buzzrard, you!)

........you cannot even get that fact right. I did apply and was accepted to 
the Harvard Law School but: Wesleyan University A.B., Columbia University Law 
School, J.D., New York University School of Law, LL.M. (in Comparative Law), 
Faculte de Droit et Institut de Droit Compare, Universite de Paris, (J.S.D. 
study and research), adjunct professor of law, N.Y.U. Law School (1961-89), 
full-time practicing lawyer. 

> ..... or othewise managed a glass  factory, pray, allow us the knowledge of 
this -- and cite your sources!
  
It suddenly occurred to me why you have taken this issue so to heart: Carl 
Zeiss is the answer. You are a Zeiss person and since Zeiss acquired the 
Schott glass factory - I believe I have that right, don't I? - it is hard for 
you to acknowledge that Leitz might have gone Zeiss one better by developing 
its own glass laboratory/factory without having to buy an existing one, 
n'est-ce pas?

As to sources, I have already cited my sources. Don't you read? Here was my 
first post on this subject: 

Subj:   Re: [Leica] Canada build vs German build
Date:   3/22/02 9:29:50 PM Eastern Standard Time
From:   SthRosner
To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us

Here it is, direct from the glasses' mouth, Fall 2001 issue of Leicaview, 
published by Leica USA, adapted in turn from an interview with Norbert  
Meinert, last manager of the Leitz Glass Factory:

"The Leitz Glass Laboratory ....operated until 1989......Overall, the Leitz 
Glass Laboratory developed 35 new glasses from an estimated 50,000 
experimental melts.....Without the laboratory, in fact, most of the modern 
lenses of the period 1949 to 1989 would not have been possible. Because of 
its work, the company produced up to 10 metric tons of glass a year, partly 
because of close communication between glass researchers and lens designers. 
Other large glass manufacturers were often behind Leita/Leica because optical 
glass is of only minor importance to them...."


Note, marc - getting even smaller - that LEICAVIEW is published by Leica 
Camera Inc. Its Publisher is Roger W. Horn who happens also to be President 
of Leica Camera Inc. The full citation of my source is LEICAVIEW Fall 2001, 
Volume 12, Number 2, at page 9. Note that the description of Norbert Meinert 
as last manager of the Leitz Glass Factory is an official statement of Leica 
by its having been put in print last fall by the Leica factory. (I can hear 
you now marc: Rolfe Fricke, the translator of the LEICAVIEW article, is an 
unreliable translator and therefore not even this statement in LEICAVIEW can 
be credited.)  

But even had the current Leica FACTORY officially stated that the Leitz/Leica 
Company had a glass FACTORY until 1989 (another small error), who but you, 
marc, or to put it better, who in his right mind - you are of course 
excepted, marc - would mince words with me and claim that a "glass 
laboratory" that "produced up to 10 metric tons of glass a year" is not a 
factory? Hello?

How the United States Army Reserve ever put a pair of leaves on your 
shoulders is beyond me. And who on this list would like to serve in a 
military unit under the command of marc james small? All affirmatives, take 
one step forward.

marc, I've met people like you before: arrogant, self-important, pompous and 
so easily deflatable that it ain't no fun. And your type is invariably nasty 
and rude, lacking in plain, simple courtesy and civility. You don't know how 
and you just don't get it. One would think that after a time, getting beat up 
would begin to hurt but it doesn't seem to make any difference to you.

So step right up and get your mug bloodied each time you misbehave.

Seth         LaK 9
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