Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2002/01/17
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]SthRosner@aol.com wrote: >OK, friends, you want facts, here are the facts. > >In a message dated 1/16/02 7:19:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, >msmall@roanoke.infi.net writes: > >>Seth >> Claiming references without citing names is, of course, a no-no. Provide >> names, or hold your peace. >> > >Two Leica friends collaborated on the message I quoted. Peter Wright, an >experienced and long-time Leica photographer and LHSA member in Alhambra, >California, was one of them. > > >> you have previously revealed your inability to read >> things. I guess you never read the addendum to the M3/M2 IB ... >> > >You specialize in gratuitous insults. The above friends and I have looked at >M2/M3/M4 IBs; there is no mention of annual CLAs. I spoke 30 minutes ago with >Jim Lager who has been in Leicas for 30 years, worked at Leitz Rockleigh for >five, has an enormous collection of official Leitz/Leica literature (probably >the largest private collection in the world), including IBs and catalogues >(and all errata and addenda). In 30 years, Jim just told me, he has never >seen or heard of a piece of official Leitz/Leica literature recommending >annual CLAs nor had he ever heard that mentioned at Leitz. Please furnish me >with an actual example of the addendum to which you refer (not a quotation >from it - I don't trust you). When I see it, I will acknowledge that I was >wrong. Otherwise, we will all know that this was another of your >fabrications. I promise to return it unharmed. > > >> Tink Ewald died two years back (one of the founders of what is now the >> LHSA) >> > >Yesterday by phone Dr. Al Clarke, one of the real founders of the LHSA said >"I never heard of Tink Ewald...where is he from?" Gerald Leeson started the >Leica Collectors International (LCI) in 1967 and attended the LHSA meeting at >which he certified Dr. Clarke, Julius Foris, George Newton (of the UK), Rolfe >Fricke and Dr. John Pember as the charter members (founding fathers) of LHSA. >Who was Tink Ewald, marc? Facts. Dates. No one in LHSA has heard of him. > >>but the repair guy who worked for him and who now has my M6, and >> Tink's kids, will confirm. >> > >That's a no-no, marc. Name the repair guy who worked for Tink Ewald and who >now has your M6. Give me his telephone number so I can check your facts. And >Tink's kids will confirm what? They had knowledge of their father and the >operation of his store? Come on, marc! > >>Ewald-Clark was hardly a large store, >> > >where was the store, city and street address? I want to check it out. > >>but they had three repair guys trained by ELNY. >> > >......a small store had THREE REPAIR GUYS trained by Leitz? Or was it really >a big store? Is that believable LUGGERS? Name their names, marc. Telephone >numbers? Can I call them? > >This is typical marc very small. marc cites one example (assuming it is true >- ?? -) and expects the reader to accept that as evidence of his universal >statement. NOT. > >Roger Pelham owned and ran a camera store and was a franchised Leica dealer >in Muncie Indiana from 1937 to 1960. Since then he has continued a private >trade in Leica equipment. This morning by phone, as to the statement that >Leitz NY encouraged dealers to set up independent repair facilities, Roger >said: "absolute bullsh-t." He said "Leitz didn't want independent repair >shops where they couldn't directly control the quality of the service. Of >course, they also wanted to keep the repair business. In addition, a local >shop, PARTICULARLY A SMALL ONE [he said], couldn't stock parts and certainly >couldn't afford the expensive equipment required to do complicated repairs >and test cameras and lenses once repaired." He did acknowledge that some of >the very big stores might have had a Leitz-trained repair person, who also >worked on cameras and lenses from other manufacturers. > >As an interesting historical aside, he also said that for many years the only >repair people at Leitz NY were German, having been trained at Wetzlar and >come to New York at Wetzlar's direction. He added that sometime in the 1950s >Al Novick, the Leica Chicago area man, recommended that Leitz hire Norman >Goldberg who then came to New York and was the first American to work in >repair at Leitz NY. His son is Don Goldberg (DAG). > >In the interest of fairness and openness, something you need to learn, marc, >I will add that I just got off the phone with Ernst Hartmann, head of the >service department at Leica Northvale. Ernst did say that for a couple of >years in the 1970s, because of requests from some dealers, Leitz attempted to >train Leica repair people to do authorized Leica service locally. It didn't >work because the local people couldn't acquire an adequate level of knowledge >and experience, they didn't buy the necessary repair tools and test equipment >and some of them used non-factory substitute parts to make more money. As a >result, Leitz couldn't monitor and control the quality of service, Leitz's >reputation took a bad hit and they shortly discontinued the program. Maybe >that's when Tink did his thing. > >Now I'll give you names. People, for close to four decades, with whom I've >been friends and on a first name basis at Leitz NY, Leitz Rockleigh and Leica >Northvale : Jim Lager, Ernst Hartmann, Walter Heun, Hy Becker, Walter Moffat, >Vince Fochtman, Richard Torpey, Ronnie Greico, Nils Thorsten and many others >whose names escape me at the moment. > >In June 1967 I went to the Leitz showroom on Park Avenue South to buy my >first M Leica, intending to buy an M3. Met Dick Torpey who told me that the >new M4 was about to be delivered and if I could wait a week it should be in. >Told him I was going on an extended trip to Asia and asked would I need to be >concerned about maintenance or service. He laughed and said that Leica >cameras and lenses undergo four - count them, four - quality and tolerance >inspections before they leave Wetzlar and are inspected once again at Hudson >Street. He said if you don't damage or misuse the M3 or M4, unless you are a >professional putting hundreds of rolls through each month, or week, you won't >have to have it serviced for 7 or 8 years. If you're a professional >photographer, it might be prudent to service it in 4-5 years. > >Hy Becker, the Leitz sales rep for the eastern half of the United States, was >a very good friend at that time. When I posed the same question about my new >M4, he gave exactly the same response. And within the last half-hour, I put >exactly that question by telephone to Don Goldberg (DAG Camera Repair) and >Ernst Hartmann. Both of them laughed. Neither ever heard of a recommended >annual CLA, both said it was entirely unnecessary and Ernst has been with >Leitz/Wetzlar, Leitz/NY and Leica/Northvale for decades and Don has been in >the business for many years. > >And I still have that 34 year-old M4; it's been CLAd once and still operates >perfectly. > >>and read the Pop article I referenced, which also mentions this. Or check >> >with Herb >Keppler, who has written about the "annual CLA" thing. > >A Pop article and Herb Keppler are the sources for Leitz formally >recommending an annual CLA? Come on, marc. > >>Contact me off-List for further information -- >> Marc >> > >......now that is really the limit. You put out disinformation after >disinformation and when someone calls you on it, you declare victory and >retreat to "contact me offlist" >You should be ashamed of yourself. In some parts of the world that is called >cowardice, not something the United States Army would expect in a retired >reserve lieutenant colonel. > >Further deponent knoweth not. > >Seth Rosner still LaK 9 > >P.S. marc, others on this list have written me offlist thanking me for taking >you on. No, I will not name their names. It seems there are those on the list >who are too sensitive about your nasty, sometimes vicious, and always slimy >way of attacking people to take you on. I'm not going away so mend your ways >and mind your tongue. >-- >To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html > > - -- To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html