Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2002/01/17
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]OK, friends, you want facts, here are the facts. In a message dated 1/16/02 7:19:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, msmall@roanoke.infi.net writes: > Seth > Claiming references without citing names is, of course, a no-no. Provide > names, or hold your peace. Two Leica friends collaborated on the message I quoted. Peter Wright, an experienced and long-time Leica photographer and LHSA member in Alhambra, California, was one of them. > you have previously revealed your inability to read > things. I guess you never read the addendum to the M3/M2 IB ... You specialize in gratuitous insults. The above friends and I have looked at M2/M3/M4 IBs; there is no mention of annual CLAs. I spoke 30 minutes ago with Jim Lager who has been in Leicas for 30 years, worked at Leitz Rockleigh for five, has an enormous collection of official Leitz/Leica literature (probably the largest private collection in the world), including IBs and catalogues (and all errata and addenda). In 30 years, Jim just told me, he has never seen or heard of a piece of official Leitz/Leica literature recommending annual CLAs nor had he ever heard that mentioned at Leitz. Please furnish me with an actual example of the addendum to which you refer (not a quotation from it - I don't trust you). When I see it, I will acknowledge that I was wrong. Otherwise, we will all know that this was another of your fabrications. I promise to return it unharmed. > Tink Ewald died two years back (one of the founders of what is now the > LHSA) Yesterday by phone Dr. Al Clarke, one of the real founders of the LHSA said "I never heard of Tink Ewald...where is he from?" Gerald Leeson started the Leica Collectors International (LCI) in 1967 and attended the LHSA meeting at which he certified Dr. Clarke, Julius Foris, George Newton (of the UK), Rolfe Fricke and Dr. John Pember as the charter members (founding fathers) of LHSA. Who was Tink Ewald, marc? Facts. Dates. No one in LHSA has heard of him. > but the repair guy who worked for him and who now has my M6, and > Tink's kids, will confirm. That's a no-no, marc. Name the repair guy who worked for Tink Ewald and who now has your M6. Give me his telephone number so I can check your facts. And Tink's kids will confirm what? They had knowledge of their father and the operation of his store? Come on, marc! > Ewald-Clark was hardly a large store, where was the store, city and street address? I want to check it out. > but they had three repair guys trained by ELNY. ......a small store had THREE REPAIR GUYS trained by Leitz? Or was it really a big store? Is that believable LUGGERS? Name their names, marc. Telephone numbers? Can I call them? This is typical marc very small. marc cites one example (assuming it is true - - ?? -) and expects the reader to accept that as evidence of his universal statement. NOT. Roger Pelham owned and ran a camera store and was a franchised Leica dealer in Muncie Indiana from 1937 to 1960. Since then he has continued a private trade in Leica equipment. This morning by phone, as to the statement that Leitz NY encouraged dealers to set up independent repair facilities, Roger said: "absolute bullsh-t." He said "Leitz didn't want independent repair shops where they couldn't directly control the quality of the service. Of course, they also wanted to keep the repair business. In addition, a local shop, PARTICULARLY A SMALL ONE [he said], couldn't stock parts and certainly couldn't afford the expensive equipment required to do complicated repairs and test cameras and lenses once repaired." He did acknowledge that some of the very big stores might have had a Leitz-trained repair person, who also worked on cameras and lenses from other manufacturers. As an interesting historical aside, he also said that for many years the only repair people at Leitz NY were German, having been trained at Wetzlar and come to New York at Wetzlar's direction. He added that sometime in the 1950s Al Novick, the Leica Chicago area man, recommended that Leitz hire Norman Goldberg who then came to New York and was the first American to work in repair at Leitz NY. His son is Don Goldberg (DAG). In the interest of fairness and openness, something you need to learn, marc, I will add that I just got off the phone with Ernst Hartmann, head of the service department at Leica Northvale. Ernst did say that for a couple of years in the 1970s, because of requests from some dealers, Leitz attempted to train Leica repair people to do authorized Leica service locally. It didn't work because the local people couldn't acquire an adequate level of knowledge and experience, they didn't buy the necessary repair tools and test equipment and some of them used non-factory substitute parts to make more money. As a result, Leitz couldn't monitor and control the quality of service, Leitz's reputation took a bad hit and they shortly discontinued the program. Maybe that's when Tink did his thing. Now I'll give you names. People, for close to four decades, with whom I've been friends and on a first name basis at Leitz NY, Leitz Rockleigh and Leica Northvale : Jim Lager, Ernst Hartmann, Walter Heun, Hy Becker, Walter Moffat, Vince Fochtman, Richard Torpey, Ronnie Greico, Nils Thorsten and many others whose names escape me at the moment. In June 1967 I went to the Leitz showroom on Park Avenue South to buy my first M Leica, intending to buy an M3. Met Dick Torpey who told me that the new M4 was about to be delivered and if I could wait a week it should be in. Told him I was going on an extended trip to Asia and asked would I need to be concerned about maintenance or service. He laughed and said that Leica cameras and lenses undergo four - count them, four - quality and tolerance inspections before they leave Wetzlar and are inspected once again at Hudson Street. He said if you don't damage or misuse the M3 or M4, unless you are a professional putting hundreds of rolls through each month, or week, you won't have to have it serviced for 7 or 8 years. If you're a professional photographer, it might be prudent to service it in 4-5 years. Hy Becker, the Leitz sales rep for the eastern half of the United States, was a very good friend at that time. When I posed the same question about my new M4, he gave exactly the same response. And within the last half-hour, I put exactly that question by telephone to Don Goldberg (DAG Camera Repair) and Ernst Hartmann. Both of them laughed. Neither ever heard of a recommended annual CLA, both said it was entirely unnecessary and Ernst has been with Leitz/Wetzlar, Leitz/NY and Leica/Northvale for decades and Don has been in the business for many years. And I still have that 34 year-old M4; it's been CLAd once and still operates perfectly. >and read the Pop article I referenced, which also mentions this. Or check with Herb >Keppler, who has written about the "annual CLA" thing. A Pop article and Herb Keppler are the sources for Leitz formally recommending an annual CLA? Come on, marc. > Contact me off-List for further information -- > Marc ......now that is really the limit. You put out disinformation after disinformation and when someone calls you on it, you declare victory and retreat to "contact me offlist" You should be ashamed of yourself. In some parts of the world that is called cowardice, not something the United States Army would expect in a retired reserve lieutenant colonel. Further deponent knoweth not. Seth Rosner still LaK 9 P.S. marc, others on this list have written me offlist thanking me for taking you on. No, I will not name their names. It seems there are those on the list who are too sensitive about your nasty, sometimes vicious, and always slimy way of attacking people to take you on. I'm not going away so mend your ways and mind your tongue. - -- To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html