Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2000/09/05

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Subject: Re: [Leica] RC, Not at all Cool! Daddy O! (long)
From: "Mike Durling" <>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 08:11:14 -0400
References: <> <>

I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only person who doesn't care for the
cooltone.  I, too, used a lot of Brovira in the '60s and '70s.  I moved to
Portriga later on, not because of the silver, but because the prints just
looked great.  I wish they still made it in the gorgeous (semi) matte
finish.  I also liked Kodak's Kodabromide back then.

I've been back printing regularly for about a year now.  For the time being
I'm using only RC paper for the convenience.  Most of that is Ilford with
the 'pearl' finish. I don't like that plasticy glossy.  While the regular
MG-IV is pretty good I really like the warm tone.  A bit more olive than
Portriga but there's a richness that I don't get with other papers.

Because of the rave reviews here I bought some cooltone.  As Mark said its
not all that cold just cooler by comparison.  Too me the blacks just don't
feel as deep as either the neutral or the warm.  Overall the tones don't
seem, as smooth.  I'm sure its purely psychological.   On night scenes the
blacks are pretty dark.   Its just the shadow details feel muddy.  Nothing
exotic about the developer.  Dektol 1:2 for the most part.  Tried 1:1 since
Ilford recommends longer development for that paper.  It may have helped the
blacks but the overall feeling is the same.

I would be interested in hearing other reactions.

Mike Durling

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Rabiner" <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2000 3:39 PM
Subject: [Leica] RC, Not at all Cool! Daddy O! (long)

> I have a neat stack of a dozen or so 11x14 prints sitting right here next
to me
> which I printed Friday. A model test. The contacts didn't excite me and I
was in
> no mood to print them but I had a deadline which was Friday.
> I'm a die hard fiber advocate and this was the first time I've printed RC
in a
> year or so except for contact sheets.
> I used the new Ilford Cooltone paper which I've never used before and
bought a
> new CD to play in the darkroom so I could do this boring task with
something new
> to wake me up.
> I've shied away form getting any of this Cooltone stuff from Ilford
because I
> was afraid I'd like it . THEY DON'T MAKE IT IN FIBER. I'm a huge fan of
> papers which I don't stray from. They have a warmtone option to their
> gorgeous paper and now they are dangling the option of in the other
> A Cooltone option. More bromide. Less Chloride.
> As expected the paper was not as blue as the box. :)
> I was ready for this because the warm stuff comes in a box which looks
> Hershey's chocolate in a thin slab. But inside is paper which is like
> a warm grey, not a warm brown.
> It's black and white paper, man!
> When the Multigrade III came out way back it was a de-puke-ified version
> Multigrade II.
> They just cleaned it up, took the puke out. The yellowed cast in both the
> and the greys.
> When the Multigrade IV came out it was the same thing; a further cleaning
> brightening process. Also if you read the fine print it was optimized for
> printing for those like me who do that.
> So now the COOL stuff is; when used in Dektol 1: 2 with a splash of Neutol
> and a capful of Benzotriazole NOT AT ALL COOL.
> IT'S JUST NOT AT ALL WARM! It's a further de-puke-ifacation of the Ilford
paper line.
> It's the cleanest paper I ever did see and that includes Agfa Brovira and
> Broviraspeed which was my papers of the 70's and early  80's.
> Ansel Adams in his old "THE PRINT" book got me worshiping the castless
> grey as part of what makes a silver print more of a silver print. (like
> When they took the silver out of the paper in the late 70's and everyone
> switched to Portriga because it was the only paper which had silver in it
> I stuck to Brovira and a nuetral gray.
> This new Ilford Cooltone stuff going to get me doing some more RC printing
on a
> regular basis for Workprints, ungrateful clients and for stuff I'm
sticking in a
> book anyway.
> It's just not all fiber anymore. For me anyhow.
> Mark W. Rabiner
> :)
> pearls before shine

In reply to: Message from apbbeijing <> (Re: [Leica] Bokeh vs. Nukeh)
Message from Mark Rabiner <> ([Leica] RC, Not at all Cool! Daddy O! (long))