Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2000/08/25
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Simon, The Classic Camera WC1. My impression is that they're the main place for Leica. (And just in case they're reading this....very nice people as well!) Actually I really like the store and it has everything any Leica fan needs to satisfy their requirements. Matt. - ---------- >From: "Simon Lamb" <simon@sclamb.com> >To: <leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us> >Subject: Re: [Leica] "B Grade" Leica gear???? >Date: Fri, Aug 25, 2000, 3:11 am > > Matt > > Who are you buying through? > > Simon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Matt Morgan" <mattmorgan@pdseurope.co.uk> > To: <leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us> > Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 8:19 PM > Subject: Re: [Leica] "B Grade" Leica gear???? > > >> Simon, >> Thank-you for your detailed reply. >> I'm in London, and have just bought a `demo' 50mm 1.4 Lux. The saving was >> decent enough to warrant buying it. I don't know what I should really be >> checking for, but as long as the exterior looks fine and I can see clearly >> thru the optics, the aperture and focus rings move freely, and there's no >> scratches on the glass, then I assume it's OK. The only thing I've noticed >> with this lens is a very minute mark exposing silver on the black paint > just >> next to the `E 46', but I'm sure with my use it will probably gain a few >> more. I can make a fuller judgement when I get some results back, (off to >> Joe's Basement today) >> However, I have also put a deposit on a 24mm `demo', which again looks > fine, >> but I'll inspect it more closely when I go back, but I have discovered > that >> the cost saving isn't as substantial as I was at first led to believe. > It's >> 2-300 GBP cheaper than the full catalogue price, but it's only about 90 > GBP >> cheaper than the actual selling price. For the sake of 90 quid, I may as >> well have a new one. If I don't need to be concerned, then any saving > helps. >> Bearing in mind what I've already spent with them, and that I'll be buying > a >> rapidwinder, a 75mm or 90mm and another M6, as well as the 24mm, maybe > they >> might make the price more favourable. We'll see. >> Matt. >> >> >> >> ---------- >> >From: "Simon Lamb" <simon@sclamb.com> >> >To: <leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us> >> >Subject: Re: [Leica] "B Grade" Leica gear???? >> >Date: Thu, Aug 24, 2000, 11:54 pm >> > >> >> > Matt >> > >> > I asked the same questions when I went the Leica HQ in the UK. They > stated >> > that in the UK a 'demo' means any equipment that has been used by a > sales >> > rep either on the road to show to potential dealers, or on a stand at a >> > show. In this instance, when the equipment is returned to Leica UK they > put >> > a stamp on the box and affix a star to the passport application form to >> > denote that the equipment is ex-demo. When the passport is returned it >> > should also have a star affixed to it so that future purchasers will > know >> > the origins of the goods. All such equipment would be checked by the > Leica >> > technical staff before being shipped out to dealers for sale. >> > >> > If a dealer has a piece of equipment and he has taken it out of the box > to >> > show to prospective purchasers then it is up to that dealer to disclose > that >> > fact and offer the goods at a reduced price as ex-demonstration. There > will >> > not however be anything on the box or paperwork to denote that fact that > the >> > goods are ex-demo. But then, if it has been handled but not removed > from >> > the shop then I do not particularly care as long as the dealer removes > any >> > fingermarks. >> > >> > I do have some sympathy for dealers here. Take the Noctilux. There is > a >> > dealer in London who has a Noctilux in his shop. I looked at it some > time >> > ago and he removed if from the box and mounted it on a camera so that I >> > could assess the amount of intrusuion into the viewfinder. I did not > buy it >> > at the time so he put it back in the box and back in the glass cabinet. >> > Given that no dealer would hold large stock of the Noctilux, should I be >> > able to return to the shop later and ask for a discount because the > goods >> > are 'ex-demo'? This seems unfair, since one has to be able to look at > goods >> > before deciding whether to make a purchase, and the dealer should be > able to >> > show goods without immediately making them 'ex-demo'. >> > >> > Simon >> > >> > Matt Morgan wrote: >> > >> >> Rich, >> >> As I am just in the process of buying a "demo' lens, (from a reputable > and >> >> known dealer) and want to make sure I'm not a mug, could you please >> > enlarge >> >> on the term `demo'? >> >> If a lens is sold as a demo, should I expect it to have only been used > in >> >> the same store for potential customers to just put it on a camera and > look >> >> through it? What other use could it have had? Could it be a return? >> >> How much wear would a demo lens expect before it is then sold on? >> >> If it is demo, why would the store sell it, instead of keeping it for >> > quite >> >> a period of time, or are demo's supposed to be constantly renewed? >> >> What are the signs I should look for and check when buying? >> >> Lastly, what is an average discount from the dealer's selling price > (not >> >> full-list price) that should be expected for a demo? >> >> Apologies for so many questions, but as I'm spending a lot of money in > a >> >> very short time I'd like to save a chunk if I can trust `demo' gear. >> >> However, I'd always rather pay the full amount for new than risk buying >> >> inferior kit. >> >> Thanks, Matt. >> >> >> >> ---------- >> >> >From: Photovilla@aol.com >> >> >To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us >> >> >Subject: [Leica] "B Grade" Leica gear???? >> >> >Date: Thu, Aug 24, 2000, 6:41 pm >> >> > >> >> >> >> > <<Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 20:40:52 -0400 >> >> > >> >> > From: Austin Franklin <austin@darkroom.com> >> >> > >> >> > Subject: [Leica] "B Grade" Leica gear???? >> >> > >> >> > Message-ID: <01C00E0B.9A963BE0@user-2ive2l5.dialup.mindspring.com> >> >> > >> >> > References: >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > I just got off the phone with a camera dealer in California (he was > not >> >> > >> >> > trying to sell me anything) who insists that all camera manufacturers >> > sell >> >> > >> >> > A grade and B grade equipment...even C and lower grade. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > He claims the B grade is what is sold by the mail order outfits >> > (typically >> >> > >> >> > called "Gray Market")...and is why they can offer the lower prices. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > The only marking distinction between any of the grades is a sticker > on >> > the >> >> > >> >> > item...and he said these stores just pull the stickers off. >> > Manufacturers >> >> > >> >> > will always have some items that don't 'meet spec' and these > 'inferior' >> >> > >> >> > grade products, are what become B grade products, as opposed to > fixing >> >> > >> >> > them, or throwing them away... >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > It tees me off that if this is true, the manufacturers don't > physically >> >> > >> >> > mark the products as B grade... He said Hasselblad sells this grade > as >> >> > >> >> > 'demo' equipment...but again, the item it self isn't marked with >> > anything >> >> > >> >> > but a sticker. What about the used equipment market, how do you know > if >> >> > >> >> > you are buying an A grade or a B grade? >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > It would appear that even new equipment can be 'not so good'... >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > What does anyone else know about this?>> >> >> > >> >> > While I doubt any of this is actually true...I can say that I have > never >> >> > found any grey market gear with a sticker on it indicating it was > some >> > sort >> >> > of different grade. >> >> > >> >> > I have imported gear from: >> >> > >> >> > Germany >> >> > Hong Kong >> >> > Italy >> >> > Holland >> >> > Switzerland >> >> > Austria >> >> > Singapore >> >> > Cayman Islands >> >> > >> >> > ...and maybe a few others and I have never found a single difference >> > beyond >> >> > the paperwork. I have also had some really REALLY picky customers > come >> > to the >> >> > showroom and compare gear atom-for-atom and never come up with > anything. >> >> > >> >> > Perhaps Joseph Yao is still on the list and can shed more light on > the >> >> > subject, if there is anything to it. I'd like to hear it too. It > would >> >> > actually be a great sales-pitch for someone who sold only USA gear > too. >> > ;-> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > later, >> >> > Rich >> >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > >