Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2000/08/09

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Subject: Vs: [Leica]So long, Flare, we overknew ye.... was Shadow boxing
From: "Raimo Korhonen" <>
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 18:24:58 +0200

Let it be - obviously you do not know what you are talking about. When did you last print a contrasty negative?
All the best!
photos at

- -----Alkuperäinen viesti-----
Lähettäjä: ralph fuerbringer <>
Vastaanottaja: <>
Päivä: 08. elokuuta 2000 23:33
Aihe: Re: [Leica]So long, Flare, we overknew ye.... was Shadow boxing

>together at last: the flare twins, meyers and wullf,official flare quardians
>on the list.for the flair wulff uncovered in photographing  a brick wall
>he received the uncoveted DE award(double expose, sky first then the
>wall,get max flair)
> meyers contributions to flare myth  would require a 30 gigabite harddrive.
>still you cant fault these two tech nincompops for presumption.for
>their pathetic theory they demean a perfectionist, Philip Jones-Griffiiths.
>they imply he would skip a helpful preflash to speed up his own or magnums
>slide-copying,ignoring the best quality possible.there have been statements
>galore here that flare and preflashing involve inevitable and severe loss of
>definition and contrast. Philip Jones-Griffith statement to forget the
>preflash  was  unqualified. in practical terms it verifies the unqulalified
>one muddy meyers quoted from Erwin Puts:"the old story that you can use a
>low contrast and/or flare prone lens to compensate for high contrast in the
>scene is not accurate. flare adds nothing to the highlights,
>just muddies the dark." cant we get flare interested in somthing else, like
> the epson 1270? . humidity and ozone are having a ball turning stuff
>orange. flare, go there,give the orange a preflash.if it helps you'll be a
>hero, maligned no more.  ralph
>> From: Edward Meyers <>     both hava reading disored
>> Reply-To:
>> Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 14:26:24 -0400 (EDT)
>> To:
>> Subject: Re: [Leica]So long, Flare, we overknew ye.... was  Shadow boxing
>> Thank you for this evaluation. Ed
>> On Tue, 8 Aug 2000, Henning J. Wulff wrote:
>>> At 2:20 AM -0400 8/8/00, ralph fuerbringer wrote:
>>>> sincd ed meyers hides behind a magnum name with his flare infatuation i'm
>>>> offering one in rebuttal. philip jones-griffiths is not just a photographer
>>>> of equal repute but is a technician without an equal among magnum
>>>> photograpers.  i once asked Philip Jones-Griffiths whether to get the
>>>> preflashing attachment for the bowens famous slide copier. he said it was
>>>> not just valueless but a handicap. he was doing or supervising (president of
>>>> magnum at the time) tons of slide copying. if preflashing w/precise control
>>>> is a handicap in a labratory setup what does
>>>> the degrading imput of flare from an uncoated lens add to an outdoor
>>>> portrait? meyers and wulff claim this is why the preflashing effect works:
>>>> flare is so pushy and fast it gets to your film before your actual picture!
>>>> flaretheewell,ralph
>>> Maybe he likes the extra punch and lack of detail in shadows that that will
>>> bring. Using the pre-flashing with the Bowens Illumitran does indeed help
>>> control contrast at times. I had one for a while and found the pre-flash
>>> definitely worthwhile for many shots. If you are using the regular slide
>>> duplicating film the effort is often not worth the trouble, but the effect
>>> is unmistakable.
>>> Maybe he was referring to the use of the pre-flash when he had a ton of
>>> images to copy and time was more important than ultimate contrast control?
>>> It's a 'handicap' if you consider a flatter image a handicap.
>>> As you generally gain contrast in copying, and usually shift the HD curve
>>> as well, you usually need to reduce contrast. You do this best by starting
>>> off with a slide duplicating film matched to your taking film as well as
>>> possible, then try to lift the toe area out of the murk a bit by
>>> pre-flashing. Fairly straighforward.
>>> *            Henning J. Wulff
>>> /|\      Wulff Photography & Design
>>> /###\
>>> |[ ]|