Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2000/01/12

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Subject: Re: [Leica] Winder M4-2 Questions???? Who KNOWS!?!
From: John Collier <jbcollier@home.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 14:15:10 -0700

on 12/1/00 8:42 am, Bob Keene/Karen Shehade at kabob@tiac.net wrote:

> Hi group-
> 
> Ok, why, I don't know- but I'm feeling like I want a winder for my M6 (yes,
> I have a Rapidwinder- shut up!)
> My questions revolve around the M4-2 winder. According to Matheson *some*
> M4-2 winders have #14 400 (will work with M6, M4-P) and some are  #14 414
> (which will NOT work with M4-P and M6) and BOTH share the battery pack #14
> 227.... ok?
> Now- additional confusing information is:
> 
>> 
>> Hello Bob:  In case you decide to bid on the winder...the box is marked
>> code # 14 400 and the winder works fine on my M6 and my M4-2.  A little
>> note packed inside the box with the winder reads "from serial 31035 all
>> M4-2 winders code # 14 214 are identical with code #14 400.  The serial #
>> of this winder is #14032 and it is engraved on the lock.  The battery pack
>> does read # 14 227.
> 
> this info sent to me by a gentleman who WAS selling a winder on Ebay
> (unfortunately I missed the boat);
> so does anybody have any definitive info here? As in - you are using an
> M4-2 winder on an M6 and the part# is 14 414 and the serial # is.....?
> 
> Bob (quietly losing my mind over something I probably don't need and -YES-
> I *KNOW* the Winder M works with the M6, but hoping I can get a deal on
> something I won't use too much unless I'm doing headshots!) Keene
> 
> 
The M4-2 cameras have a pin that is linked to the shutter release button
that activates the early winder. It was very common for this linkage
combination (button/link/motor switch) to go out of adjustment and cause the
winder to activate when you had only lightly pressed the release button and
not fired the shutter. Terrible noises then ensued scaring the heck out of
the operator (and PopPhoto). The next winder, still M4-2, uses the present
system of signaling to the winder that the shutter has fired through the
winding spindle of the camera. Basically a constant pressure is maintained
on the wind mechanism and the motor is allowed to "spin" when the released
shutter frees the winding mechanism of the camera to turn. Much the same way
the wind lever will not move until the shutter is fired. The winders that
followed all use the same motor and mechanism but the casing was redesigned
to allow for a tripod mount on the winder M4-P and winder M. Where things
get confusing is in the fact that the product code is often mistaken for the
serial number. For instance you have quoted an incorrect product code of 14
414 but it really is 14 214! Any winder M4-2 ,regardless of code, serial
number 10349 and below is the earlier type and will not work on an M6. Any
winder M4-2 serial number 10350 and above, winder M4-P and winder M will
work on the M6. The next confusing thing is the fact that some M4-P cameras
will work on the early winder and some will not, depending on whether they
have the linkage or not. The M4-P cameras can be retrofitted with the
required shutter linkage but the M6 can not as the battery compartment is in
the way. People read the compatibility chart and mistakenly think the
winders can be modified.

John Collier