Re: [Leica] Leica and Watches.

["N.S. Ng" <nsnga@pacific.net.sg>]

Hello,

I followed with much interests the current thread on Leica, pens and
watches. IMHO opinion, the watch that goes well with a M camera is a A.
Lange & Sohne. This German made mechanical watch is superbly well designed
and finished. It won th Watch of the Year in Basel in 1998. It is very
expensive but in terms of quality, it is right up there with the best Swiss
watches such as Patek Philippe. Production is very limited and is much
sought after by watch lovers and collectors.

From my information, Rolex never used any Valjoux movement in the Daytona.
The Daytona has a Zenith El Primero movement. This is an extremely well made
movement. However, it is rumoured, Rolex may decide to use their own
movement in the new Daytona. BTW, Rolex is considered a mass produced watch.
The production volume is about 1 million units, both mechanical and quartz.
Patek Philippe is limited to 20,000 per year.

Valjoux movements are used in many Swiss watches. But bear in mind, most of
these manufacturers purchase the base movements or ebauches and completely
re-work these. These could include different types of balance wheels,
springs, polished screws, rotors, etc. For example, the Valjoux 7750
chronograph movement is used in watches ranging from a few hundred dollars
to tens of thousands!

In many ways, Leica is similar to one of these fine watch manufacturers.
Small production, high quality, conservative and expensive. I use Leica not
because it is expensive. I started my interests in photography when I was
about 15, I used my dad's M3. Even then, that's 30 years ago, I could
appreciate the special qualities of the M camera. I guess, when my son grows
up, I will pass this M3 to him as well as my M6, R6.2 and R8, plus a dozen
lenses or so. But by then, 35 mm. photography will probably to all digital.
May be he could still use the Leica lenses with the digital camera bodies!

Regards,
N.S. Ng

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Javier Perez <japho@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
To: <leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us>
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 1999 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Leica] Leica and Watches.


> Howdy
> As a chronic tinkerer I also get a kick out of fixing old watches.
> According to the guys at alt.horology, who know tons more than me,
> there are very few swiss  watch companys that still make their own
> movements, In fact most are made by one of 2 major swiss movement
> companys ETA and Valjoux The old Omega Speedmaster has a Valjoux
> I think. The new automatic one has an ETA. (or is it the other
> way around?) There are also companys that specialize in cases,
> main springs, wheels, hair springs, pallets, dials etcetera. These
> are all produced in standard sizes and calibers so chances are
> the dial or pallet from your Renis or Oris or whatever can fit on
> a  tissot or Urbita. It's kind of disenchanting until you consider that
> most of these companys started out making their own movements
> 50 or 100 years ago and had to consolidate their mfg resources
> in order to stay in business. Furthermore, imagine what fixing a watch
> would cost if there were 10s of thousands of different types of say
> balance wheels. For a watchmaker in Switzerland making watches is
> sort of like building PCs Pick your form factor and functions then pick
> your movement, have your dial made for you, with your name on it of
course.
> Now select a standard case style or if you are big, have one of the case
companys
> make your own custom design. Kinda fun actually. If only cameras were like
that
> to some extent.
>     Hamilton still produces several mechanical watches including a Khaki
automatic
> and a chronograph The chrono is real neat. But the movement is Swiss. In
fact I
> think the company is now Swiss owned. According to what I've heard,
> Rolex*, Zenith** and Patek are the only major companys that still make
their own
> movents.
> * I think the early Daytonas had Valjoux movements.
> ** The Zenith Rainbow Chrono is pure art and tremendously undervalued.
Get one
> even if it means trading away a Thambar. To see a picture go to the
follwing URL
>
> http://www.zenithwatches.ch/r02_4724.htm
>
> whadayathink????
>
> Is this a watch like it oughta be or what?
>
> Keep your Daytonas
> Gimme a Zenith.
>
> IMHO: This is what the original speedmaster should have looked like.
>
> One of these days I'll get around to buying one, Yep.
>
> The Zenith goes well with an M4. For the the M3 though I'de prefer
something smaller
>
> like an old Seamaster 600. A cartier Tank watch for the IIIa and a Swatch
for the
> R4, 5, 6 ,7
> The R8 requires a huge 70s style Seiko with a zillion functions while the
SL-2 does
> better with
> an old Submariner no-date. Unless it's a 50th anniversary model in which
case a date
> function
> submariner is preferred particularly when German lenses are used or when
traveling
> outside of Europe.
>
> Why did God give me so many hobbies...............
> What am I doing up at this hour?
> Bedtime
> Javier
>
> Lucian Chis wrote:
>
> > I do agree that Swiss watches are great (my daily wear is an Omega, as
is
> > my father's, after his Girrard-Perregaux High Frequency crapped out),
but
> > since you brought this up in the local patriotism spirit, let me tell
you
> > that for a long time american timepieces were better made, kept better
> > time and lasted longer than swiss ones. You may
> > recall that for a good many years the swiss were using american made
> > assembly lines as well as machinery. Sort of a reversed Bolsey
situation.
> > You may not admit it, in the arrogant horolegeur suisse style which
turns
> > the nose up at anything american in their shows, but I invite you to
> > attend an american watch show in order that you get an objective opinion
> > on things. The thing that most of us agree on is that Rolex is way out
of
> > proportions overrated in the English speaking world. Mechanics AND style
> > included. But all nations have their snobs!
> > Unfortunatelly, the great american names haven't put out a mechanical
> > watch in ages!
> > Now about swiss watches and Leica, let me tell you that the ALPA 10d I
> > had reminded me a lot more of swiss watches (maybe clocks) than any
Leica,
> > but that's another story! Just think of the depth of field indicator on
> > the 50/1.8 Kern Macro-Switar! Good lenses too, even though I prefer
Leica.
> >
> > Lucian
> >
> > NO archive!
> >
> > On Sat, 12 Jun 1999, Christian Payot wrote:
> >
> > > IMHO, a swiss mechanical watch like Patek Philippe, Rolex or
> > > Jaeger-Lecoultre (and some others) is exactely the same kind of
product as a
> > > Leica M camera. The object is (at least) as important as the function.
There
> > > are many watches that are cheaper, more accurate, more confortable,
more
> > > "up-to-date", more "automatic", but there is no better made watch.
> > >
> > > Reducing a watch to a jewelry is superficial and not correct. A
mechanical
> > > watch is much more than just a design or a function and some are
marvels of
> > > technology. Would you compare your Leica camera with a Cosina ?
Nonsense,
> > > even if both can take pictures...
> > > There is the same difference between a Patek Philippe and a Timex.
> > >
> > > Regards.
> > >
> > > Christian Payot
> > >
>
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- -----
> >  ----
> > >
> > > Bernard a icrit :
> > >
> > > > Watches are jewelry for men. I wouldn't want to wear the same
jewelry for
> > > > 45 years, just as I'd like to wear different clothes, 45 years from
now.
> > > > Accurate time can be had for $5, and designs are fashion-dependent.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>