Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 1999/02/12

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Subject: [Leica] Leica M winders
From: "Boreham" <boreham@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 05:42:04 -0000

Some of you might be interested in this correspondence from rec. photo.35.
Mike

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jim Williams <jlw@nospam.net>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Date: 13 February 1999 00:17
Subject: Re: Leica Winders


I definitely second the motion that you might want to send your camera
and winder for adjustment. Not only will this probably reduce the
noise level, it might prevent damage to your camera!

The old M4-2 winder (which went with the M4-2 camera, the first
"winderized" Leica M -- earlier motorized models had
individually-adapted, built-on motors) used a very simple mechanical
system to couple the winder to the camera. Remember, these are purely
mechanical cameras, so there's no way to control the winder via an
electrical switch as on most winderized SLRs. Later M winders used a
more sophisticated system -- but on the M4-2 winder, the coupling was
controlled simply by torque. The motor assembly was mounted in a
spring-loaded cradle. When the winder advanced the camera, the motor
would run until the camera reached the end of its advance stroke and
locked. Then, as the motor continued to turn, its torque would twist
the cradle against spring tension until it turned far enough to
disengage a switch, which shut off power to the motor. It would stay
like this until you released the shutter again -- which would unlock
the advance gears in the camera, allowing the springs to "untwist" the
cradle, closing the switch and turning on the motor again. In other
words, the film-advance gears themselves were used to "signal" the
motor whether or not it was time to run.

This had a couple of bad side effects. One was that if the spring
tension on the cradle isn't adjusted correctly, the winder either
won't advance at all (if the springs are too loose, the cradle won't
"untwist" and turn on the motor when the advance gears are free; if
the springs are too tight, the motor will apply too much force to the
wind mechanism.) My guess is that your motor is too tight -- the
excess torque makes it noisy as the motor "fights" the wind mechanism
at the end of the stroke, and over time this can also cause excessive
wear on the winding gears. Setting the tension is an easy adjustment
for Leica service, but you'll get the best results by sending in both
the body and the winder so they can tailor the setting for your
camera.

>What you might want to try is to send the camera and winder in for an
>adjustment.  those winders are like the winders that you use on SLR's
I have a
>couple of them.  THey seem to work best when the camera and the
winder are
>aligned with each other.
>
>HTH
>John
>

>> John Campbell wrote in message <36C06875.407FEE92@mmm.com>...
>> >Anyone have experience with both the Leica winder "m4-2" and the
"winder
>> >m". Is the "winder m" any quieter than the m4-2? My Leica
M4-P/Winder
>> >m4-2 makes quite a "thwak" when you trip the shutter. Considering
the
>> >price difference between the two I figured there must be some
really
>> >great improvements besides just adding a tripod socket (I paid
$150 for
>> >my winder m4-2, where winder m seem to go for over $400 used).
Also am I
>> >correct in the fact that the "winder m" will work on a M4-P?
>> >Any help would be appreciated.