Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 1998/06/25

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Subject: Re: [Leica] Newbie shooting at wedding shower
From: tedgrant@islandnet.com (Ted Grant)
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 17:17:09 +0100

Ron wrote:

>In a month, I will be photographing plenty of candid shots of  attendees
>in a wedding bridal shower at night in a private home.  I also plan to
>use available lighting. Using a flash would be too intrusive and would
>cast an unnatural glow.  Not the Leica way!?! FYI I will bring my M6 &
>35mm f/2.0 and a manual SLR 55mm f/1.2. Everything is pretty much manual
>and limited to these two lenses, though I'd love to have a 75mm or 90mm
>to work with.

OK Ron,

Lets get serious real quick!:)

1: Use the highest possible shutter speed and the widest possible
aperture... Forget all that Depth of field whatever stuff, as it's
irrelevant in the kind of lighting atmosphere you are describing..
Available light in a home at night. Now think about that for a moment and
then think about what the light level outside would be in the middle of the
day to use the kind of shutter speeds (125th & 250th) and apertures (11 &
16) you are talking about. Like that is high noon sunlight almost.

You'll be lucky with the f 2.0 wide open and 3200 to shoot at 1/60th! A 30th?

My choice would be T-max 400 rated at 800 developed in T-max developer at
75 degrees for 6 mins.  Failing that, I'd go 3200 at 3200. You'll get 200
responses on what films and developers, all correct in the hands of each
photographer making the suggestion.  Mine of course will be the correct
one! :) Don't forget guys I'm kidding! :)

>>From memory of the private home where the bridal shower will take place,
>it is evenly lit from the ceiling with recessed fluorescent lighting all
>around the edges.  Carpeting and walls are whitish.  Overall brightness
>is difficult to know unless I'm there metering. At least I know it's not
>dimly lit (yellowish glow) with low ceilings.

I'd forget colour neg or transparency and do the shoot in B&W....much
simpler and you only have one film to be concerned with. Besides your
pictures will be far more interesting and dramatic in B&W.  And for heavens
sake don't use a damn flash, as you'll just become a big pain in the ass by
the time the evening is half over twinkie lighting every time you press the
shutter!

There isn't anything more distracting than some nut photographer flashing
that damn thing in peoples faces for three hours.

>I think I'll need to shoot mostly at shutter speeds of 1/125 or 1/250 to
>mostly freeze facial expressions / movement.>>>

You can freeze expressions if you concentrate on the people as they are
listening and you are watching through the viewfinder. The light isn't
going to change during the course of the evening unless someone turns off
the lights, so once you have the initial exposure it almost doesn't matter
which way you shoot, the exposure is going to stay very close from
beginning to end.

As I said before...go as wide as you can and that will give you the
potential for the highest possible shutter speed, this helps in steadying
the camera and the shutter speed might be as "high" as a 1/15th.  So what,
just squeeze gently and you should knock off some nice available light
images.

<<<<I prefer to have a large DOF (f11 or 16) so that I can shoot subjects
from the desired hyperfocal setting.  That way I can be sure most subjects
will
>be in focus. >>>>>>

Sorry the depth thing really doesn't work when you are doing available
light with people and the lens almost wide open or wide open. The key thing
here is focus every time you wish to take the picture. And between now and
the shower, practice focusing every night as you sit watching TV or moving
about the house. The more you do it the quicker you'll become at popping
the two r'f images into one.

To make it simple focus quickly on the eyes of your subject or some other
sharply defined line on the dress or suit, this means as soon as the camera
comes to your eye you are on the eyes of the subject with the r'f patch and
zing!! In focus and click, film exposed.  And done faster than they realize
you have taken their picture.

Trying to do grabby DOF things will spoil 99% of your images, just focus
quickly, carefully  each time and don't even think about DOF.  If you think
about all these things and the advice of the 200 lUG offerings,  you'll
screw most of it up. Don't think about anything just concentrate on the
images you are focusing on and trip the shutter, don't get hung-up in
details or you'll have a lousy evening and be ticked right off later when
you look at the results.

<<<<<<<I suspect I'll need a very large DOF since with a 35mm, I'm
anticipating to shoot subjects within 5-7 feet for either single person or
a small cluster of people.  Having never been to a bridal shower myself,
not sure what activities take place.>>>>>>>

Don't be overly prepared, you're better off taking the M6, film and one lens..

The most important thing on a first time shoot like this is remembering the
word "KISS"  "Keep it simple stupid!" :)  If you go with one lens, one
camera and one kind of film and stick with it for the entire evening,
that's about as simple as you can get. And your positive results will be
much higher than trying to hop between two cameras and three kinds of film.

Stay cool, don't worry and shoot what you can, even live dangerously even
at the expense of blowing a few.  That's a given anyway, don't feel bad
you'll blow some. Hell some of us still do that after many years
experience. And we do it knowing we are blowing it sometimes, but that's
called living dangerously and if they work "Great!"  If they don't?  What
the hell, nobody's perfect even when they are working with the perfect
Leica camera. :)

Have a good one, most important don't worry. Have fun that's what this is
all about.  And for heavens sake don't be killer serious or you'll be a
wreck by the time the evening is over.

ted










 I can only come
>prepared!  ;-)
>
>Who would recommend  Ilford's or Kodak's iso 3200 colour print film?
>
>OTOH, if anyone has experience using the following print films  (FUJI
>NGH II 800, Kodak  TMax800) I'd like to know whether these can be
>pushed twice, in case I need to shoot at iso3200.  Pros and cons on this
>versus using the NGH or GTMax 3200 film.  I will also shoot B&W film -
>any comments or recommendations on pushing TriX400 (3 times) or would
>you recommend other B&W film for better pushing capabilities?
>
>I REALIZE the question of high speed film preferences will result in
>many personal opinions, but I'm game for comments since I have no
>experience with this project.
>
>BTW if anyone has experience shooting in this environment, please share
>your thoughts.
>Much thanks in advance for enlightenment. ;-) ;-)
>
>Sorry if posting too long but trying to cover all bases.
Ron wrote:

>In a month, I will be photographing plenty of candid shots of  attendees
>in a wedding bridal shower at night in a private home.  I also plan to
>use available lighting. Using a flash would be too intrusive and would
>cast an unnatural glow.  Not the Leica way!?! FYI I will bring my M6 &
>35mm f/2.0 and a manual SLR 55mm f/1.2. Everything is pretty much manual
>and limited to these two lenses, though I'd love to have a 75mm or 90mm
>to work with.

OK Ron,

Lets get serious real quick!:)

1: Use the highest possible shutter speed and the widest possible
aperture... Forget all that Depth of field whatever stuff, as it's
irrelevant in the kind of lighting atmosphere you are describing..
Available light in a home at night. Now think about that for a moment and
then think about what the light level outside would be in the middle of the
day to use the kind of shutter speeds (125th & 250th) and apertures (11 &
16) you are talking about. Like that is high noon sunlight almost.

You'll be lucky with the f 2.0 wide open and 3200 to shoot at 1/60th! A 30th?

My choice would be T-max 400 rated at 800 developed in T-max developer at
75 degrees for 6 mins.  Failing that, I'd go 3200 at 3200. You'll get 200
responses on what films and developers, all correct in the hands of each
photographer making the suggestion.  Mine of course will be the correct
one! :) Don't forget guys I'm kidding! :)

>>From memory of the private home where the bridal shower will take place,
>it is evenly lit from the ceiling with recessed fluorescent lighting all
>around the edges.  Carpeting and walls are whitish.  Overall brightness
>is difficult to know unless I'm there metering. At least I know it's not
>dimly lit (yellowish glow) with low ceilings.

I'd forget colour neg or transparency and do the shoot in B&W....much
simpler and you only have one film to be concerned with. Besides your
pictures will be far more interesting and dramatic in B&W.  And for heavens
sake don't use a damn flash, as you'll just become a big pain in the ass by
the time the evening is half over twinkie lighting every time you press the
shutter!

There isn't anything more distracting than some nut photographer flashing
that damn thing in peoples faces for three hours or more.

>I think I'll need to shoot mostly at shutter speeds of 1/125 or 1/250 to
>mostly freeze facial expressions / movement.>>>

You can freeze expressions if you concentrate on the people as they are
listening and you are watching through the viewfinder. The light isn't
going to change during the course of the evening unless someone turns off
the lights, so once you have the initial exposure it almost doesn't matter
which way you shoot the exposure is going to stay very close from beginning
to end.

As I said before...go as wide as you can and that will give you the
potential for the highest possible shutter speed, this helps in steadying
the camera and the shutter speed might be as "high" as a 1/15th.  So what,
just squeeze gently and you should knock off some nice available light
images.

<<<<I prefer to have a large DOF (f11 or 16) so that I can shoot subjects
from the desired hyperfocal setting.  That way I can be sure most subjects
will
>be in focus. >>>>>>

Sorry the depth thing really doesn't work when you are doing available
light with people and the lens almost wide open or wide open. The key thing
here is focus every time you wish to take the picture. And between now and
the shower, practice focusing every night as you sit watching TV or moving
about the house. The more you do it the quicker you'll become at popping
the two r'f images into one.

To make it simple focus quickly on the eyes of your subject or some other
sharply defined line on the dress or suit, this means as soon as the camera
comes to your eye you are on the eyes of the subject with the r'f patch and
zing!! In focus and click, film exposed.  And done faster than they realize
you have taken their picture.

Trying to do grabby DOF things will spoil 99% of your images, just focus
quickly, carefully  each time and don't even think about DOF.  If you think
about all these things and the advice of the 200 lUG offerings,  you'll
screw most of it up. Don't think about anything just concentrate on the
images you are focusing on and trip the shutter, don't get hung-up in
details or you'll have a lousy evening and be ticked right off later when
you look at the results.

<<<<<<<I suspect I'll need a very large DOF since with a 35mm, I'm
anticipating to shoot subjects within 5-7 feet for either single person or
a small cluster of people.  Having never been to a bridal shower myself,
not sure what activities take place.>>>>>>>

Don't be overly prepared, you're better off taking the M6, film and one lens..

The most important thing on a first time shoot like this is remembering the
word "KISS"  "Keep it simple stupid!" :)  If you go with one lens, one
camera and one kind of film and stick with it for the entire evening,
that's about as simple as you can get. And your positive results will be
much higher than trying to hop between two cameras and three kinds of film.

Stay cool, don't worry and take what you can and even live dangerously even
at the expense of blowing a few.  That's a given anyway, don't feel bad
you'll blow some. Hell some of us still do that after many years
experience. And we do it knowing we are blowing it sometimes, but that's
called living dangerously and if they work "Great!"  If they don't?  What
the hell nobody is perfect even when they are working with the perfect
Leica camera. :)

Have a good one, most important don't worry. Have fun that's what this is
all about.  And for heavens sake don't be killer serious or you'll be a
wreck by the time the evening is over.













Ted Grant
This is Our Work. The Legacy of Sir William Osler.
http://www.islandnet.com/~tedgrant