RE: [Leica] RE: Minimizing grain by copying prints

["John Brubaker" <photoman@novagate.com>]

Duane - It is possible to minimize grain in an 8" x 10" print by first
printing small, then making copy negatives to print your final prints from.
The trick is to make the copy negs on 4" x 5" film, so the grain in the
prints isn't enlarged much.  Of course, the down side is that sharpness and
resolution is lost through this copy proceedure.  - JB.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> [mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us]On Behalf Of BIRKEY,
> DUANE
> Sent: Friday, February 06, 1998 3:24 PM
> To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> Subject: [Leica] RE: Ted shaking our heads to pulp
>
>
> Ted wrote
>
> >He used Kodak 3200 at that speed and sometimes 6400. Developed the
> film
> >himself and then took it and had 4X6 B&W prints made at his local 1
> hour
> >shop!
>
> >I know it sounds crazy already, but hear it out! It gets wilder! :)
>
> >When the prints are made 4X6 they don't show any grain!  Now you edit
> and
> >take the very best and copy them onto Tmax 100 film fine grain stuff.
> And
> >make your almost grainless 8X10's from the copies! Now I know you are
> going
> >to be shaking your heads and brains to pulp.
>
> At first glance I'm a bit skeptical,  since it just doesn't seem to
> make logical sense.
>
> I looked at a few of my TMY B&W 3x5 prints with a Linhof 8x loupe and I
> can see grain with or without the loupe.  I suppose copying a low
> resolution print softens the image enough that the grain doesn't appear
> as sharp on the 8x10's and maybe the apparent sharpness was just OK in
> the 8x10.
>
> But let's face it, if there is grain in the negative it will be in the
> final print and in the same proportion to the rest of the image whether
> you make copies or not.   If you soften the grain you also soften the
> image. When you duplicate images, you add more grain albeit different
> grain and you lose some sharpness since photographic paper is
> relatively a low resolution material.  I suppose adding the Tmax 100
> grain over the other grain could cause it to break up the original
> granular patterns more.  I would test it before believing the process
> to be true and I would want to see some side by side comparisons.  I've
> been wrong before.
>
> The other factor about grain is that it is invisible with true blacks
> and true whites, and less visible when the subject is in sharp focus.
> Some textured subjects hide grain as well.  Out of focus medium and
> light grays make grain stand out like a sore thumb.  So shooting a high
> contrast scene (or making a high contrast print) while maintaining the
> subject in focus could nearly eliminate the appearance of grain.  Don't
> just take my word for it, look at some prints!
>
> Duane
>
>