Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 1996/12/30
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]At 05:19 PM 12/29/96 -0500, you wrote: >With regard to Mr Love's repetitive ignorant and insulting remarks.... Not much holiday spirit here, is there? I've even been demoted from "Charlie" to "Mr. Love." Anyhow, exactly who am I insulting? I think Contax cameras and lenses are excellent; unlike you, I don't especially care where they are designed or produced. >These guys either really DO believe Zeiss is designing the lenses and >the cameras, or they've established a MOST elaborate fraud. > Well, what you describe in your next paragraph (below) is not Zeiss designing the cameras. In fact, this and the news release in another recent post seem to confirm that Kyocera does the heavy lifting, which is hardly surprising, since Zeiss, as I said, simply does not have the capability to do the electronics design, or of course the production (that's why they accepted K's offer in the first place; they couldn't do cameras any more, but by having someone do them, they improved the market for their optics). I've never denied that there was collaboration on the camera design, just the implication that K. is a very junior partner. From what I know of this, I'd say K is the senior partner (even if Zeiss is responsible for, say, the unique control placement on most Contax SLRs). Indeed, Contaxes are all basically Japanese technology (sometimes very cleverly modified, of course, as in the RX and AX). If you think that Zeiss played anything other than a consulting role in designing things like the T2 and the TVS, well, I have a bridge in Brooklyn available--they are just (very nice) Japanese point'n'shoots. BTW, do you really think Zeiss designed the lenses on those cameras? >Again, for the hard-of-acknowledging-reality: Zeiss designs all the lenses. >Period. Zeiss and Kyocera design the cameras as a joint project, with the >final work being done by Kyocera subject to approval from Oberkochen. See above. >Finally, the Porsche Design folks ONLY had input on the original RTS. >Period. Again, Porsche Design, Zeiss, and Kyocera are united on this. I don't disagree--I don't know when that relationship ended, but I sure do remember the ad campaigns. My point was in reply to someone who asserted that since Porsche Design did the Contaxes, that proved they were truly German and not Japanese. - ------ The overall points I'd like to make are two: First, it really doesn't matter much where all this happened--let's just talk about all cameras on the basis of their qualities, rather than their national or corporate origins. Second, the Kyocera-Zeiss collaboration is all about marketing, as much as about design and production. K had camera design and production abilities and lots of money, but a product name (Yashica) which didn't exactly ring the chimes of the Mercedes-BMW set. Z. had the name (Contax) which they were never going to be able to use again on their own, not much money, and a desire to get back into 35 so they could sell lenses. Bingo--a marriage made in heaven. The fact that K is involved is not an insult or a bad thing, it's a good thing--it's made a great line of cameras possible, a line which, though traditional in many ways, is also relatively up-to-date technologically (something Zeiss never could have done on its own, and which Leica has struggled with). To avoid off-topic accusations, the lessons from all this apply to Leica quite directly. Leica has seen its name as a marketing tool, and has really been quite shameless in using it, and has been in my opinion more willing than Zeiss to compromise on quality. Their first few point'n'shoots were Minoltas, unaltered except for cosmetics and a doubled price. Leica had no hesitation in selling Minolta and Sigma designed and built lenses as their own, even calling them things like "vario-Elmars"--lenses whose optics were available in Minolta and Sigma mounts for 1/5 the price (which is not necessarily to say they weren't good). I don't think there's any reason to assume Zeiss is any more virtuous. These people are all in business, and they'll do what they have to do. What we have to hope for is that there's still a market for quality, and that Leica, Contax/Zeiss/Kyocera and others will be willing to fill it. To anyone who's read this far, congratulations and Happy New Year! - --Charlie Charles E. Love, Jr. CEL14@CORNELL.EDU