Re: CL vs CLE features?

[Bob Sperling <bowtie@abest.com>]

At 03:05 PM 10/3/96 -0400, you wrote:
>At 01:24  03/10/96 +0100, you wrote:
>>Could someone who is familiar with these two cameras please list their
>>features and explain the differences? This information seems quite hard
>>to come by. I notice most of the discussion here is about the CL but the
>>CLE sneaks an honourable mention here and there. 
>>-- 
>>joe b.
>>
>I am not all that familiar with the CLE, but I'll try to give you some
>background. Leica developed a relationship with Minolta some years ago (late
>60s maybe). Their first cooperative effort according to Leica resources was
>the CL. It appears that Leica wanted to develop a lower priced rangefinder
>to compete with the developing slr competition and as a result developed
>several designs one being a design protype of what evolved into the Minox
>35mm clamshell cameras and the CL. It is said the design is totally Leica
>with input from Minolta, and others say the opposite, but it really does not
>matter. The final body was assembled in Japan at Minalta under Leica
>supervision and QC. The Leica CL lenses were from Leica Germany.
>
>As part of this arrangement, Minolta got the rights to market an almost
>identical camera in Japan. Mistakenly, it is thought to be the same camera,
>but according to several articles from the period there are differences. The
>lenses for the Minolta were manufactured in Japan and the body backs are not
>interchangable. The filter thread of the lenses are also different because
>in Japan they apparently use a different thread.
>
>This accounts for the Leica CL and the Leitz-Minolta CL. Leica marketed the
>camera from about 1972 through 1976. After they ended production, Minolta
>assumed world-wide sales of the Minolta version and Leica produced the 90mm
>Rokkor for it. I do not know when final production ceased.
>
>Minolta thereafter (about 1980, I think) using a body shell which looks very
>similar to the CL series and using the Leica M mount produced the CLE. I
>think it was aperature priority and manual. Its main differences from a user
>stand point was the metering system was changed to read from the film (or
>shutter curtain) and the viewfinder was changed to outline a 28mm, 50mm and
>90mm lens, rather than the 40, 50 and 90 of the CL series.  
>
>The 2+ cameras address the same market conceptually from 2 different ways.
>1) Those who like strictly manual cameras and a built in light meter and
>those who like more automation. Technically, the CL is more akin to the M
>series than the CLE, while the CLE is more akin to the G-1. I think this is
>why there is some debate between various owners of these cameras as to which
>is preferable. If another poll were taken as to preferences, I surmise the
>CL owners would prefer the M series in concept and the CLE owners would
>prefer the G-1 in concept. Maybe this would be an interesting marketing
>surve for both Contax and Leica.
>
>Now, before everybody rips apart this commentary, I don't have any of my
>reference material available and therefore this all from memory. Also, I am
>not a collector, or a Leicaphile on the type where I get into the technical
>stuff. PLEASE embellish add to, and correct this information so we may all
>learn.
>
>Oh, one more thing, though I still don't understand it logically; the
>Minolta lenses will work on the M series, but not the Leica produced CL
>lenses. Most, but not all M series lenses will work on the CL (because of
>the metering arm), but should work on the CLE (with the same limitations as
>they do on the M6 because of the metering.
>Brian Levy, J.D.
>Toronto, Ont.
>dlevy@worldy.com
>
>
Brian, you are wrong in some important essentials.  The "thread" or the
focussing cam is identical in the Minolta CL and the Leica CL.  They are the
same camera.  The original difference in price is because Leica checked
EVERY Leica CL before sale.  Minolta's quality control was done of a
production line scale: id.est.: every certain time, a camera was checked for
quality.

At least some of the Rokkor lens were made in Germany.

I have used both Leica and Minolta CLs. I currently use (in Leica equipment)
an M6 and a CLE. Love those built in meters.  I wish Leitz would bring out a
modern day CLE. What a convenient camera!

Last point: There is no way a CL lens will PROPERLY couple to an M camera
RF.  I'm not at all sure about the reverse.

Bob Sperling, J.D.