[Leica] More flags as requested from the same series

[Peter Dzwig]

Jayanand (and Don),

I was about to reply with a version of an offline post I sent to Don, 
when I saw his reply. I'll rephrase it, but here goes!

I said to Don that it always seems strange to me the extent to which 
Americans dwell on their flag as a symbol of national identity and 
contrasting that with the general attitude to flags on this side of The 
Pond. It is, as Don says, a cultural thing.

IMHO the difference is that by and large in Europe flags are seen as 
symbols of nationalism, and in Europe in general nationalism and 
flag-bearing has a very nasty flavour. I don't think I need to explain why.

That is not to say that Europeans aren't patriotic, they are; but often 
it can range from outright chauvinism to half-joking teasing of the 
other guy.

Regards,

Peter

On 13/07/2026 15:05, Don Dory via LUG wrote:
> Jayanand, you come from a culture of immense diversity and age.  For
> thousands of years most people lived side by side with people of very
> different social standing, religions, and customs including invaders from
> all directions.  Excluding the people dragged across the Atlantic to work
> the cotton and indigo fields the vast majority of Americans chose to leave
> their culture and the safety of a known situation to try something
> different.  At first it was largely a pretty homogenous northern European
> group that gradually included other groups that were somewhat different:
> but the important point is that there was an overriding cultural imperative
> to become "Americans" which most acculturated to.
> 
> Starting with the "Kennedy" immigration bill in the sixties? the largely
> homogenous social norm began to change as people from very different
> cultures were encouraged to immigrate.  Much like the crisis in the 1920's
> when millions of immigrants were pushing the labor prices down and
> our immigration laws changed, this new immigration wave began to have an
> effect on the population; the fringes of society began reacting in the
> seventies/eighties and that discomfort has been increasing.
> 
> I believe that starting with the events of 9\11 the population generally
> started to promulgate patriotism as a way to mentally deal with the world
> wide discomfort with American hegemony and the internal discomfort that
> meeting all the new residents of very different customs created.  You have
> to realize that most Americans lived with vast spaces between themselves.
> A few of the coastal cities were somewhat dense in the rest of the world
> sense but once you left the coast most lived with at most a few thousand
> nearby people; nearby meaning their political unit typically a county.
> 
> What is interesting to me is the level of patriotism I observed on a long
> road trip through the eastern part of the US.  Citizens of very different
> political views were very interested in the American project.  While
> methods of implementation varied greatly the general view was that the idea
> of America was great and that it needed to be maintained\restored by almost
> any means necessary.  I was surprised  by the caution expressed by some
> very conservative people with the use of violence; the media portrays this
> group as promoting violence yet the woman on the street was very interested
> in political resolution and not Von Clausewitz  resolution.  Some of these
> people were ex-military and very aware of what lays down that path.
> 
> As a parting thought, in my more than seven decades I have observed that in
> the 60's through the early 2000's the patriotism I have observed was
> reserved for July 4th and possibly Memorial Day.  Otherwise that aspect of
> custom was not an issue.
> 
> A very long winded post to try to explain the very complicated devotion to
> the flag and American culture.  Also a way to start a reasonable discussion
> on the LUG like we used to have.
> 
> All the best.
> 
> Don
> 
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2026 at 9:59 PM Jayanand Govindaraj via LUG <
> lug at leica-users.org> wrote:
> 
>> I find the American fixation with their flag hard to fathom. For a person
>> like me, albeit from far away and of a completely different culture, it
>> feels like a form of unhealthy nationalism, leading to jingoism and
>> starting wars on flimsy grounds—a tendency immensely helped by geography.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Jayanand
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 12, 2026 at 8:39 PM Don Dory via LUG <lug at leica-users.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Greetings to all.  One of our members asked for a few more flags in the
>>> series I shot in the neighborhood.  Here are two more variations; the
>> wind
>>> was blowing so I didn't have very many variations:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/don_dory_gmail_com/Monday+Misc/flag+with+Live+Oak+street+in+background.jpg.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/don_dory_gmail_com/Monday+Misc/centered+flag.jpg.html
>>>
>>> All the best.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Don
>>> don.dory at gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Dr. Peter Dzwig