[Leica] Moon landing - where were you?
CartersXRd
cartersxrd at gmail.com
Tue Jul 23 05:31:56 PDT 2019
I don’t want to live under unfettered ANYTHING.
ric
> On Jul 23, 2019, at 4:46 AM, Sonny Carter via LUG <lug at leica-users.org> wrote:
>
> Jay, I would disagree with you that something for nothing is even an issue
> for most Americans. We’d like for people of means to share in the costs of
> the common services we get. Many of us would like for those with little
> means to have adequate housing and food. Many of us wish that if we have a
> health issue in our elderly years, it won’t mean a loss of assets we’ve
> built up in a lifetime of work. Not something for nothing. Not that at all.
>
> SonC
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 2:38 AM Jayanand Govindaraj via LUG <
> lug at leica-users.org> wrote:
>
>> There was no insult intended. The fact really is that Americans do not
>> understand what Socialism is, and how it kills initiative. That is why they
>> flock behind charlatans like Bernie Sanders, because getting something for
>> nothing is inherently attractive to most people. You know about it in
>> theory, after reading deeply about it, I know about it in practice, I have
>> lived this every day of my life.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Jayanand
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On 23-Jul-2019, at 12:30, Christopher Crawford <
>> chris at chriscrawfordphoto.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Jayanand,
>>>
>>> I have spent a considerable portion of my life studying the history of
>> the Soviet Union. I have no illusions about what life was like there.
>> Compared to the US, life was hard and the people there had little in the
>> way of material possessions. Worse than that, they had no political
>> freedom. That said, damn near every household in Soviet Russia owned a
>> television from the 1960s onward. This is because the Soviet government
>> made a special effort to make sure that TVs were produced in large numbers
>> and sold cheap to ensure that everyone had one. They didn't do it out of
>> the kindness of their hearts; the Communists saw TV as an excellent
>> propaganda tool. Propaganda is only effective if it is accessible, so they
>> put the effort into making TV accessible.
>>>
>>> India has never been a dictatorship of the sort that Communist countries
>> are, so the propaganda value of TV didn't matter to India's government.
>> Your story about 25 year waits for a Vespa is similar to the way
>> automobiles were sold to Russian workers in the USSR. I don't think anyone
>> waited 25 years for one; but waits of 10-15 years were not unheard of, and
>> the cars were small, crappy, unreliable junk that cost a lot of money. Few
>> Russians tried to buy one.
>>>
>>> I knew, as a historian who has studied the USSR, why TVs were
>> commonplace in the Soviet Union. I don't know as much about your country
>> and asked a simple question because I was curious. There was no need to
>> insult me, or the American people. The really stupid people don't ask
>> questions at all because they have no intellectual curiosity.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Chris Crawford
>>> Fine Art Photography
>>> Fort Wayne, Indiana
>>> 260-437-8990
>>>
>>> http://www.chriscrawfordphoto.com My portfolio
>>>
>>> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Christopher-Crawford/48229272798
>>> Like My Work on Facebook
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/22/19, 11:53 PM, "LUG on behalf of Jayanand Govindaraj via LUG"
>> <lug-bounces+chris=chriscrawfordphoto.com at leica-users.org on behalf of
>> lug at leica-users.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> TV was a luxury that the masses did not deserve, according to the
>>> Government in those days. The waiting queue for a Vespa scooter in
>> those
>>> days was 25 years - you paid an advance, then waited 25 years for the
>>> delivery to come. None of you Americans have the faintest clue on what
>>> living in a socialist economy is like, with centrally planned economic
>>> policies, and licenses to manufacture anything, even a pencil,
>> leading to
>>> shortages of everything starting from food, and rampant corruption
>>> everywhere to obtain the semi monopolistic licenses. You have this
>> woolly
>>> picture of a Socialist Workers Paradise, which is utter nonsense. I
>> know
>>> the delicious thought of pick pocketing the capitalist rich to obtain
>>> freebies for oneself is alluring, but it just does not work. Another
>> class
>>> of exploiters will just take their place. In truth, to quote (I think)
>>> Orwell of Koestler, "Socialism feels like paradise till you reach
>> there".
>>>
>>> I would think a rereading of Animal Farm and The God That Failed
>> should be
>>> in order.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Jayanand
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 8:39 AM Christopher Crawford <
>>> chris at chriscrawfordphoto.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> How did socialism keep people from having TV in India? There were a lot
>> of
>>>> countries far more socialist than India that had television long before
>>>> 1982 (The Soviet Union, for example).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Chris Crawford
>>>> Fine Art Photography
>>>> Fort Wayne, Indiana
>>>> 260-437-8990
>>>>
>>>> http://www.chriscrawfordphoto.com My portfolio
>>>>
>>>> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Christopher-Crawford/48229272798
>>>> Like My Work on Facebook
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 7/22/19, 10:05 PM, "LUG on behalf of Jayanand Govindaraj via LUG"
>>>> <lug-bounces+chris=chriscrawfordphoto.com at leica-users.org on behalf of
>>>> lug at leica-users.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I was in college at that time. We were still in the clutches of full
>>>> fledged Fabian Socialist hell in those days in India, so there was no TV
>>>> service at all in the country (which made a pan India entrance,
>> gingerly,
>>>> though only in urban areas in 1982, for the Asian Games). I remember
>>>> hearing it on radio, followed by the photographs in LIFE magazine which
>>>> followed soon after.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Jayanand
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>>> On 23-Jul-2019, at 07:24, Peter Klein via LUG <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> In July 1969, I was working at a summer camp in rural
>>>> Massachusetts. The night of July 20, when Neil Armstrong and Buzz
>> Aldrin
>>>> landed on the moon, we counselors were invited up to the camp director's
>>>> house to watch the moon walk. The adults were all out for the night, so
>> we
>>>> had a critical mass of unsupervised 15-22 year-olds. With predicable
>>>> results. Many of the assembled used the opportunity to tell raunchy
>> jokes,
>>>> smoke cigarettes, and if they had a willing partner, make out (*). I
>>>> remember being irritated that it was hard to understand what the
>> astronauts
>>>> were saying. I was absolutely enthralled by the moon landing, space-nerd
>>>> that I was (and still am).
>>>>>
>>>>> At one point, I remember wondering if we could ever look at the moon
>>>> the same way again. Would the sight of the moon still be romantic, now
>>>> that people had walked on it? Walking back to my cabin later, I got my
>>>> answer. The full moon was just as romantic as ever, maybe more so. And
>> I
>>>> so wished that I had a girlfriend to make out with under it. :-) That
>>>> would have to wait a couple of years.
>>>>>
>>>>> --Peter
>>>>>
>>>>> (*) For people for whom English is not your first language, "making
>>>> out" is mid-century slang for hugging, kissing, petting, etc., as long
>> as
>>>> the "etc." didn't go beyond a certain point.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Sonny
> http://sonc.com/look/
> Natchitoches, Louisiana
> 1714
> Oldest Permanent Settlement in the Louisiana Purchase
>
> USA
>
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