[Leica] M10 Monochrom oh yes!

Tue Apr 3 19:36:39 PDT 2018

Notwithstanding any other considerations that may have to do with Bayer or other filter schemes, isn’t it still true that in any color sensor, because each photosite has a monochromatic filter over it, that site will receive only one-third (notionally) of the incident white light on it, and greater proportions of any non-white mixture – but in any case, lose anything from just a bit to a whole lot of the incident light, and therefore have a lower average ISO than an unfiltered monochrome sensor?

—howard

> On Apr 2, 2018, at 19:05, Ken Iisaka <ken at iisaka.com> wrote:
> 
> There are many freely available documents on what Bayer sensors are, for
> example:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer_filter
> 
> "Demosaicing", in the simplest term, is an interpolation algorithm and has
> very little to do with "anything blue in the image has to pass through a
> red then green grid layer first."
> 
> Here's a description of Foveon sensors, which actually captures blue light
> first, then green then red at last.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foveon_X3_sensor
> 
> Because all three colors are captured at the same location, no
> "demosaicing" is necessary with Foveon sensors. In addition, no
> "demosaicing" is necessary with monochromatic, or rather, panchromatic
> sensors, as each pixels capture light from a wider range of wavelength, not
> limited to one "color"
> 
> All image sensors in use today have a grid layout. Foveon sensors have
> multiple layers to detect light of different wavelengths. Bayer sensors use
> separate pixels to capture levels of different wavelengths.
> 
> Here's more explanations about different filter array designs:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_filter_array
> 
> 
> 
> On 2 April 2018 at 15:32, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> wrote:
> 
>> If there are so many factual errors then why not show us one? Show us how
>> the Bayer process really works! Otherwise this is just added to the list of
>> crass personal attacks which have compiled over the years from you. And
>> let's see one of your pictures Ken!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Mark William Rabiner
>> Photographer
>> 
>> On 4/2/18, 5:16 PM, "LUG on behalf of Ken Iisaka" <lug-bounces+mark=
>> rabinergroup.com at leica-users.org on behalf of ken at iisaka.com> wrote:
>> 
>>    There are so many factual errors. What Mark describes is Sigma Foveon
>>    sensors. It has nothing to do with Bayer-layout sensors used by Leica
>> and
>>    most other cameras.
>> 
>>    Just go take pictures.
>> 
>>    On 1 April 2018 at 03:41, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> It’s the same speed but it can skip having to pass though various
>> filters
>>> first in the RGB Bayer process. It's just direct.
>>> Makes for a far cleaner final result.
>>> As I understand it demosaicing means anything blue in the image has
>> to
>>> pass through a red then green grid layer first.
>>> Anything green has to pass though just the red gird layer one first.
>>> And if it’s a red rose its fairly direct. Should look good.
>>> A black and white sensor has none of that. No grids. No layers.
>> Everything
>>> direct.
>>> Its keeping it simple stupid. I like that.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Mark William Rabiner
>>> Photographer
>>> 
>>> On 3/31/18, 12:14 PM, "LUG on behalf of Paul Roark via LUG"
>>> <lug-bounces+mark=rabinergroup.com at leica-users.org on behalf of
>>> lug at leica-users.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>    On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 7:59 AM, chris williams via LUG <
>>> lug at leica-users.org
>>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> ...
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Leica was able to use some kind of sensor made in Belgium that
>> was
>>>> strictly designed for monochromatic images.
>>>> 
>>>> ...
>>> 
>>>    Yes, but aside from not having an R, G or B filter over the
>> pixel, the
>>>    silicon is still the same speed as that under the filters of the
>> color
>>>    sensors.  The monochrome's native speed is higher only because
>> it has
>>> no
>>>    color filters over the pixels.  I don't think the Leica foundry
>> has
>>> found
>>>    any breakthrough to increase silicon's native light sensitivity.
>>> 
>>>    I'm not knocking the monochrome at all.  For street photography
>> or
>>> where
>>>    you don't need a filter, it's truly faster and a great tool for
>> those
>>> types
>>>    of photography.
>>> 
>>>    Paul
>>>    www.PaulRoark.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>>    
>>> 
>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>    Leica Users Group.
>>>    See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>> information
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>    --
>>    Ken Iisaka
>>    first name at last name dot org or com
>> 
>>    _______________________________________________
>>    Leica Users Group.
>>    See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Ken Iisaka
> first name at last name dot org or com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information