[Leica] Film Lab
Mark Rabiner
mark at rabinergroup.com
Thu Jun 8 23:19:58 PDT 2017
Dan, I don’t blame you for thinking that what everyone is saying on every chat group is true.
That your negs back up your scans.
The real story is your scans back up your negs.
There seems to be a basic need for a lot of people to keep coming up with ways to put film on a pedestal.
That film has non-obvious redeeming values.
That after we’re done playing around with our silly digital files our film will still be there. Rocklike.
--
Mark William Rabiner
Photographer
On 6/8/17, 7:32 AM, "LUG on behalf of Dan Khong" <lug-bounces+mark=rabinergroup.com at leica-users.org on behalf of dankhong at gmail.com> wrote:
Mark
You are such a smart chap and I cannot possibly outdo you in your way with
words.
All I know is that my B&W negatives that I souped in 1968 are still doing
fine in my dry cabinet. They will still be there when I bite the dust and
maybe even you as well. Chances are when you and I bite our dusts, our
digital files will go along soon after.
I love handling and looking at physical stuffs and that includes negatives
and prints. I like the analog workflow process from which I derive great
satisfaction.
In the meantime, you are entitled to your views and I am entitled to mine.
Civilized men should always agree to disagree.
Have a nice day.
Dan K.
On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 2:38 PM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> wrote:
> Robert, other people’s personal memories are great I’m all for them
> there’s not much I can say about them but when I read “And my negatives
> will serve as my archival backup.” That’s a trigger for me. It’s an issue
> important to me which brought me to write what I wrote.
> His more full quote being:
> “I just souped a roll of Tri-X and waiting to send it to the pro-lab to
> have it scanned into digital. After that, I have the options of two work
> processes — digital and analog. And my negatives will serve as my archival
> backup.”
>
> It’s my point again that his negatives will probably bite the dust long
> before his digital files. Thinking of one’s negatives like this as an
> archival backup is being encouraged widely and is one of those alt-true
> truths. As in its just not true at all.
> And the idea that we must only respond to the main idea of a post and not
> the part of it which we have something to say about I don’t has ever been
> expressed or been in effect.
> I’m sure the archives are full of people responding to the point in a post
> which they have something to say something about.
>
> One reason why digital scanning and Photoshoping is such a nice thing is
> we can take our faded damaged off color old negatives and prints and scan
> them and process them and make them look much younger. We can restore
> them. We have the technology
> There are people who specialize in in restoration they used to have their
> own place in the yellow pages and can do a better job of that then we
> probably can. Had those negatives or prints been digital captures the
> restoration people are out of business. It’s a main plus of the digital
> process and workflow. I hate to see more and more people get that turned
> around.
> Preservation of silver gelatin prints and negs is a tough ongoing job
> which is most often done way wrong if not ignored. It’s a shoebox in the
> bottom drawer.
> Preservation of Digital files is not a roll in the hay but is way easier
> to do partly because its possible to do. Digital files don’t fade. They
> don’t have to be kept in the dark in a humidity controlled room and
> handeled with white cotton gloves.
> --
>
> Mark William Rabiner
> Photographer
>
> On 6/7/17, 10:31 PM, "LUG on behalf of Robert Adler" <lug-bounces+mark=
> rabinergroup.com at leica-users.org on behalf of rgacpa at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ahh Mark, you missed Dan's point. Shooting/developing analogue brings
> back
> memories. I agree with much of what you post, but it is irrelevant to
> anything Dan said...
> But that's ok..
>
>
> Bob Adler
> www.robertadlerphotography.com
> *"Capturing Light One Frame At A Time"*
>
> On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 1:56 PM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I’ve seen this a lot on the internet and it’s not true or don’t
> agree with
> > it… it’s not true. But it’s really out there being passed around big
> time
> > and achieving some unfortunate credulity as that’s how information
> spreds
> > now. The better virus wins. And you never know which Meme will fly
> and
> > which will die.
> > And that’s this backing up to analog as if chemistry based stuff is
> more
> > archival than digital. Or just thinking you are covered if you have
> a film
> > or paper copy of something.
> > When we all first heard about this new digital thing coming out the
> basic
> > idea behind the whole thing was the advantage of digital is its
> digital.
> > You make a copy of the thing and the it’s a clone not a copy. It’s
> the
> > same only it exists in a different space. For photography that’s
> > revolutionary. Because in the past when make a copy of a negative or
> of a
> > print and hold them side by side and they are no way identical. The
> “copy”
> > of the thing in most cases is a sad joke. So, you try to avoid
> copies. You
> > cover yourself as you’re shooting. You go “click” a bunch of times
> not just
> > once or twice. The best copy or backup is another origional.
> > More to the point is the reality that the minute your film is dry or
> your
> > print is dry it starts decomposing; leaking gasses, fading, and
> staining,
> > changing color. Film and prints exist in the organic carbon based
> world
> > just like people and trees. Film is made from dead bunnies (the
> gelatin).
> > Prints are made from that and cotton and wood. Just like people they
> are
> > dying the minute they are born. Returning to the earth from whence
> they
> > came…
> > So your film based print and the film itself is not the same image as
> > every day goes by. Every day in every way your print is worser and
> worser.
> > Film too. Not as much.
> > This is a main advantage not disadvantage of digital. It’s a plus
> check
> > not a minus. You could claim to hate the “digital look” but go with
> it
> > anyway because it lasts forever. Its digital. Other than the small
> > possibility of an isolated file getting corrupted when you go to your
> > digital file to Photoshop it again to print it or put it up on the
> internet
> > again a decade or so later you’re NOT dealing with a faded different
> > version of the thing. In digital if you can get that single file
> open it’s
> > the same file you dealt the first-time decades going by. Not one
> 100000th
> > of a percent different.
> > And if that file doesn’t open you grab another older backup hard
> disk and
> > it will.
> > In the past decade, my digital body of work is on hard disks and
> right
> > here near me. My chemical body of work is in a storage cubicle with
> fumes
> > coming out of each and every print and neg and slide. I’ve not seen
> it in
> > a few days I hope to soon and I don’t pass out from the gasses as I
> open
> > the door.
> > By the way if one print or roll of film is under fixed or under
> washed it
> > gives off a lot more and nastier gases than the stuff which was
> properly
> > fixed and washed sitting near it or in the same closet. So, the
> properly
> > processed stuff is probably fading at an accelerated rate too.
> > The chemical analog workflow is messy. The advantages are hard to
> find.
> > And if there are any advantages to film archivalness is not one of
> them.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Mark William Rabiner
> > Photographer
> >
> > On 6/7/17, 4:14 AM, "LUG on behalf of Dan Khong" <lug-bounces+mark=
> > rabinergroup.com at leica-users.org on behalf of dankhong at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > I just souped a roll of Tri-X and waiting to send it to the
> pro-lab to
> > have
> > it scanned into digital. After that, I have the options of two
> work
> > processes - digital and analog. And my negatives will serve as my
> > archival
> > backup.
> >
> > All said, 90% of my B&W pics (100% of color) are now taken on
> digital,
> > but
> > it's the last bit that is analog that gives me memories that
> spans
> > back 50
> > years when film was there in the most impressionable years of my
> life.
> > Those were the days of Nam and protest songs, and growing up into
> > adulthood.
> >
> > Dan K.
> >
> >
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> information
> >
> >
> >
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