[Leica] (SPAM: ?) Re: (SPAM: ?) Re: So much for "film is forever"..

Spencer Cheng spencer at aotera.org
Fri May 15 16:55:48 PDT 2015 

Mark,

There are many layers to technology like everything else. Do not assume because one understand one layer, that one understand the implications of the other layers.

A computer guy taught you about digital backups, correct? Computer guys wrote the S/W to support the digital image workflow, correct? Please do not insult us computer guys about stuff we know lots about. :)

Backups are not enough if you want your digital images to be usable for your life time. You actually have to read (and write) each image you have regularly to ensure that a) the image has not been corrupted due to bit rot and b) to convert it to a current format with current version of your preferred S/W package.

If you are not doing both, you might as well not bother with the backup. 

None of us, as an individual, can afford (financially) to repeat the BBC Domesday Project which was an excellent example of how not to handle digital media. 

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Domesday_Project>

Spencer

> On May 15, 2015, at 19:28, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> wrote:
> 
> Me I'm a photographer guy and I'm pretty smart when it comes to photographer
> stuff.
> But  you computer guys are pretty dumb when it comes to computer stuff.
> Again and again and again the workflo in working with digital files I'm sure
> day one first day of class in computer school is you don't put all your pix
> or files of any kind in a hard disk with the idea that is going to be there
> forever. You keep migrating often a good time is when you amass more
> information you got to a bigger drive but if your starting off with some
> huge thing it would have to be on a set timely bases. This is a thing that a
> lot of people know not just ones who know how to code.
> Basic computer backup. Its readily available information which I bet is pre
> high school curriculum now.
> 
> 
> 
> On 5/15/15 6:25 PM, "Spencer Cheng" <spencer at aotera.org> wrote:
> 
>> Dang! I was going to stay out of this. :-)
> 
> The digital media industry don’t
>> give a hoot about long term image viability. The CEOs care mostly about
>> quarter-to-quarter financial results and the size of their bonus. It’s the
>> photographer’s problem and rather too few photographers even understand there
>> is problem.
> 
> Digital cameras are all disposable in the sense that 99.9999% of
>> them are unrepairable after 3 years because the parts are no longer available.
>> Why should digital images be any better from the industry’s
>> perspective?
> 
> Spencer
> 
>> On May 15, 2015, at 1:42, Mark Rabiner
>> <mark at rabinergroup.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I think to agree I think that there is too
>> much people time and money being
>> invested into the making of digital still
>> and video files for them to be a
>> here today gone tomorrow kind of thing.
>> 
>> It makes the whole industry look bad if people can't access their pictures
>> 
>> any more or if these files are otherwise messed up just because they are
>> 
>> old... Like an old Ektachrome slide fading and fungussing. in the corner of
>> 
>> your basement.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 5/14/15 10:37 PM, "Jayanand Govindaraj"
>> <jayanand at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I have been following this thread with
>> interest, as this is a problem that
>> all
>>> of us have, and my primary
>> takeaway is that all archival systems seem
>> to be
>>> deeply flawed in the
>> long term, so we might as well use the one that
>> is
>>> convenient to us and
>> not worry about it. As Keynes said, in the long
>> term we
>>> are all dead.
>> Your pictures, however, are damned either
>>> way....:-)
>> Cheers
>> Jayanand
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 4:46 AM, Spencer Cheng
>>> <spencer at aotera.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> We are going way off topic here so this is my
>>> last comment. I
>> did not say
>>> to store your digital media using
>>> microfiche.
>>> 
>>> I am
>> aware of a group of digital archivist (including someone
>>> from NIST)
>>> 
>> working on how to preserve digital media in a standardized
>>> fashion.
>>> 
>>> 
>> Best practice digital media preservation currently require
>>> regular
>> active
>>> copying and indefinite transcription of digital media to
>>> protect
>> again
>>> deterioration of storage media and format obsolescence.
>>> 
>>> If
>>> 
>> you are not doing both, your stored media is likely to stay ephemeral
>>> 
>>> 
>> despite of what you believe.
>>> 
>>> Mark, do as you wish but 1’s magically
>>> 
>> becomes 0’s in digital media
>>> whether you believe it’s going to happen or
>>> 
>> not. Good Luck.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Spencer
>>> 
>>>> On May 14, 2015, at 16:17,
>> Mark
>>> Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> From the Library of
>> Congress
>>> (USA)
>>>> "Does the Library of Congress recommend microfilming or
>> digitization
>>> for
>>>> reformatting institutional collections?....
>>>> 
>>>> "
>> That said, the
>>> end of microfilming is near, despite it's relatively low
>>>> 
>> cost and the
>>> several hundred year projected lifetime of preservation
>>> 
>> film.
>>>> The
>>> National Endowment for the Humanities no longer funds grants
>> for
>>>> 
>>> microfilming and microfilm readers are increasingly difficult to
>> maintain> >
>>> and service."
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> http://www.loc.gov/preservation/about/faqs/reformatting.html#prescopy
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>> Recognizing Digitization as a Preservation Reformatting Method
>>>> 
>>> 
>> http://chnm.gmu.edu/digitalhistory/links/pdf/preserving/8_34a.pdf
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 5/14/15 1:17 AM, "Spencer Cheng" <spencer at aotera.org>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Canadian Archive uses microfiche which are stable for
>> 100+ years (or
>>> 
>>> acid-free
>>>>> paper for documents). The Canadian census
>> was stored that way.
>>> ³was²
>>> because I
>>>>> am not sure we have a real
>> census any more.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> Digital storage is very
>>>>> ephemeral. I doubt
>> if most digital storage will
>>> last more than 10
>>> years. Those
>>>>> 1¹s
>> randomly change to 0¹s far too
>>> frequently. I don¹t think archivist
>>> 
>> like
>>>>> digital media very much.
>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Spencer
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica
>>>>> 
>> Users Group.
>>> 
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for
>> more
>>>>> information
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Mark William
>> Rabiner
>>>> Photographer
>>>> 
>>> 
>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> 
>> See
>>> http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users
>> Group.
>>> See
>>> http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>>> 
>> information
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica
>> Users
>>> Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>> information
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Mark William Rabiner
>> Photographer
>> 
>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See
>> http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>> information
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users
>> Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Mark William Rabiner
> Photographer
> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information

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