[Leica] New M(246) Outputs 12 bit Files

Robert Adler rgacpa at gmail.com
Thu May 7 07:17:45 PDT 2015 

And thanks too George!

On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 7:17 AM, Robert Adler <rgacpa at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Jayanand. Sound advice and much appreciated.
>
> On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 10:10 PM, Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Bob,
>> My answer is simple, and my test for buying photography equipment. If it
>> will result in your instinctively getting better photographs with it, it
>> is
>> worth the expense - for example, the placement of controls on an Nikon
>> D800/D4 are what I am used to obviating the need to think too much while
>> photographing, so I will buy these ahead of an Nikon D750, which, features
>> wise, would do very nicely indeed. Cameras are just a tool for getting
>> pictures I want, and am happy with. The rest of the
>> marketing/technical/subliminal reasons for purchasing, I leave to others
>> to
>> ponder on.
>>
>> Occasionally, a system comes up that fits my needs very well, so I am
>> willing to put in the effort to train my brain so that my actions become
>> instinctive - which is what I did with the Fuji X system.
>>
>> It is very uncomplicated, in reality, if you think about it.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Jayanand
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 1:01 AM, Robert Adler <rgacpa at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Agreed. Lots of variables floating around here. The new Mono246 has 50%
>> > more pixels than the original Monochrom. Unless Leica's engineers are
>> > stupid (which they are definitely not!), your bound to get a better
>> image.
>> > More information.
>> >
>> > And I believe they are using a new processor? A "Maestro II" versus the
>> > "Maestro I" in the original Monochrom? Another variable we don't know
>> much
>> > about its impact.
>> >
>> > As Ted would say, "WHO GIVES A FLYING FART!" KISS!! IF IT GIVES YOU A
>> > BETTER IMAGE, ALL THIS KERPHLUFFEL DOESN'T AMOUNT TO A HILL OF BEANS!!!"
>> > (or something like that).
>> >
>> > However the original Monochrom images I've seen are gorgeous. Tina,
>> Lluis
>> > and Jay (to name just 3) have blown us (me) away time and again on the
>> > amazing tonalities and images at high ISO's (10,000 I believe?).
>> >
>> > After all this the question for me is if the cost of the new 246 is
>> worth
>> > it over a used Monochrom (~$3K difference) for:
>> > 1.  The improvement in the rangefinder (IMO),
>> > 2.  The better shutter mechanism (my M9 always had a kick to it that
>> really
>> > caused A LOT of lost sharpness),
>> > 3.  Improved ISO performance above 10,000.
>> > 4.  The better fit into my hand of the M240 vs the M9
>> >
>> > The main worry is what Peter said: We really don't know what the impact
>> > will be going from 14bits to 12bits. I think that remains to be seen...
>> >
>> > So I guess I'll wait and see until some consensus comes out from real
>> > world, non-Leica paid, photographers. Whether or not I will be able to
>> > afford groceries (and I am truly grateful for your concerns in this
>> area,
>> > Steve!) remains to be seen. Probably not whether I go with the old or
>> new
>> > Monochrom :-)
>> > Bob
>> >
>> > P.S., for those interested, Erwin Puts just got his M246. He initially
>> > noticed that the uncompressed file size of the new Monochrom is smaller
>> > than the M240, though the compressed files are the same. "The reason for
>> > this is unknown"...
>> >
>> > On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 10:55 AM, Frank Filippone <red735i at verizon.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Precisely my point... look at the images.....
>> > >
>> > > I have an M9.  I looked at the images created in the comparison shots.
>> > The
>> > > M9 images, when converted to B+W were of significantly less quality in
>> > > resolution than the M246.
>> > > OTOH, we are comparing apples ( 16MP) and oranges (24MP).  Pixels, do
>> NOT
>> > > grow on trees.  More pixels does = better fine display quality, all
>> other
>> > > things being equal... same lens.
>> > >
>> > > OTOH, if someone wants to sell their MM and go buy a M246, I am a
>> willing
>> > > buyer......... of the inferior.
>> > >
>> > > I have no intention of spending $7500 on a camera.
>> > >
>> > > He says irreverently.. just like he said when he bought his M8, and
>> M9 ,
>> > > and
>> > > A7.....
>> > >
>> > > Frank Filippone
>> > > Red735i at verizon.net
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: LUG [mailto:lug-bounces+red735i=verizon.net at leica-users.org] On
>> > > Behalf
>> > > Of Mark Rabiner
>> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2015 10:41 AM
>> > > To: Leica Users Group
>> > > Subject: Re: [Leica] New M(246) Outputs 12 bit Files
>> > >
>> > > I agree Frank, tahtwhat whatever bits or other specs if the camera is
>> > > making
>> > > better images than the previous with supposedly better specs then its
>> not
>> > > the specs (bits) we should be looking at but the images the camera
>> makes
>> > > and
>> > > our own bank accounts to figure out how to get it!
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On 5/6/15 1:17 PM, "Frank Filippone" <red735i at verizon.net> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Mark and others....
>> > > >
>> > > > The issue of 12 vs 14 bits is not straight forward.....  Yes, the
>> > > > difference in a straight line way is 4 times the data, but really
>> that
>> > > > means there is 4 times the GRADATION in the data.  More gradation =
>> > > > more smooth transitions between different tones.
>> > > >
>> > > > Assuming the saturation point ( top value) and lowest point ( pure
>> > > > black, as in more black is just not possible) remain fixed. Then
>> there
>> > > > could be a bit of non linear-ness to the ADC... There may be more
>> > > > values in the bright areas, and less in the dark areas.... still
>> > > > achieving the same dynamic range,. But 12 bits and 14 bits could
>> have
>> > > > different non-linear transfer functions....  Which, in the context
>> of
>> > > > photography, may not be at all easy to see with the eyes.
>> > > >
>> > > > Let me stop here... I spent the better part of my working career in
>> > > > understanding the intricacies of ADC products.  If I go any further
>> in
>> > > the
>> > > > explanation, I will lose almost everyone.    Suffice it to say that
>> > what
>> > > we
>> > > > do not know exceeds what we do know.
>> > > >
>> > > > Yes, there is a story out there... Yes it is important that we know
>> > > > what that story is, in theory.  In practice, the M246 seems to
>> produce
>> > > > better images than the MM.... 12 bits 14 bits or some other number
>> of
>> > > bits.
>> > > >
>> > > > I agree with Mark.. HDD storage is so cheap that 12 vs 14 bits is a
>> > > > ridiculous reason to chintz on the ADC resolution.  There is some
>> > > > other reason.
>> > > >
>> > > > Or, someone made a bad assumption in the first place and this whole
>> > > > thread is a waste of time.
>> > > >
>> > > > Frank Filippone
>> > > > Red735i at verizon.net
>> > > >
>> > > > Peter according  to some guy on the internet its not a matter of a
>> few
>> > > > steps up from 12 to 14 bit. Its  4 times as many shades of intensity
>> > > > in a given range.
>> > > > That sounds like a big deal for me.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > Leica Users Group.
>> > > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>> information
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Mark William Rabiner
>> > > Photographer
>> > > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Leica Users Group.
>> > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Leica Users Group.
>> > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Bob Adler
>> > www.robertadlerphotography.com
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Leica Users Group.
>> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Bob Adler
> www.robertadlerphotography.com
>



-- 
Bob Adler
www.robertadlerphotography.com

More information about the LUG mailing list