[Leica] Minor additional woe

Sat Aug 8 20:32:26 PDT 2015

Frank,
Your expertise is engineering, mine is corporations, including the behavior
patterns of those with substantial P/E investments. Lets agree to disagree
on this one.
Cheers
Jayanand

On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 11:54 PM, FRANK DERNIE <frank.dernie at btinternet.com>
wrote:

> Jayanand,I think the only things they sell in the way you believe are the
> special editions at £20,000+.
> Both Canon and Nikon sell their top models at a loss, since the production
> volume, which is far higher than Leica M, means they can not be sold at a
> price which covers costs, the manufacturing is amortised over too few
> units.They can make their profit by selling vast numbers of less expensive
> cameras. Leica can't.
> Leica bodies are probably subsidised by the lenses.
> I believe that the reason the S system was MF was because the pricing is
> dictated by the volume and they felt, quite rightly I am sure, that an
> autofocus 24x36 sensor Leica would not sell at S prices. The vast bulk of
> the cost of something selling in these tiny numbers is R&D and tooling, not
> the parts.
> Comparing them with Rolex is inappropriate IMO too. Rolex make thousands
> of times more watches than Leica make cameras. The movements are mass
> produced in an already-paid-for production line and haven't needed any R&D
> for decades, the profit margins on seen-to-be luxury goods like this are
> vast.
> Marketing strategies are pretty flexible but the basic inflexibility of
> R&D, tooling and manufacturing an engineering product are nothing like
> those of luxury goods.
> Frank D.
>
>
>      On Saturday, 8 August 2015, 14:47, Jayanand Govindaraj <
> jayanand at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>  John,
> That they are, and I don't disagree, but your buying the stuff they make
> new is just icing on the cake as far as they are concerned. Their primary
> market and focus lies elsewhere, and, irrespective of what you think,  I do
> not fault them for that - on the other hand, I admire them as having taken
> a quite brilliant business decision a decade ago. After all, they have to
> survive by selling new equipment, not pandering to the wishes and
> requirements of those fans/users who are unlikely ever to buy Leica stuff
> new. I am sure that over 95% of the Leica using photographers seldom buy
> their Leica stuff new, and the production has to be sold, after all, so
> what choice do they have, but to take advantage of their hard earned
> goodwill built over decades of excellence, and market their products as
> bits of jewelry for whatever price the market will bear? Very sensible high
> margin approach, which has worked very well over the last decade, but now
> that the luxury market is flattening to reducing, we have to see what
> future path they take. Let us not forget that they have to run a business,
> and make money on it. No different in approach from what a Rolex, a
> Montblanc or even a Mercedes/BMW would do - all of them have a large
> proportion of their allure tied up in the aspirational desires of humans -
> but that does not mean they turn out anything but the best they can, at
> their price point. If you ask me, Leica's weakness in comparison to all
> their luxury peers is what seems to be relatively weak after sales service
> - they probably get away with it because a large part of their yearly
> production is never used!
>
> I personally would also think very seriously of adding to the icing if they
> come up with a full frame, AF system based on the M series, as has been
> rumoured, and they set up their dealership here in India by then, so that I
> have a local outfit to handle problems if they occur.
>
> Cheers
> Jayanand
>
> On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 1:31 PM, John McMaster <john at mcmaster.fr> wrote:
>
> > For a company that is doing all that, they seem to spend a lot of time
> and
> > money making some of the best lenses available for any system.......
> >
> > john
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> >
> > Adam,
> > It has been blindingly obvious for a long time, to anyone who does not
> have
> > his eyes wide shut,  that Leica has morphed into a luxury marketing
> company
> > (have you ever bothered to notice WHERE they advertise nowadays?)! They
> are
> > opening boutiques in India now in partnership with the largest
> > dealers/purveyors of luxury goods here. However, there is hope for them
> > though, to change back into a photographic company, now that luxury goods
> > sales in China have drastically plunged across the board.
> > Cheers
> > Jayanand
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 10:06 PM, Adam Bridge <abridge at mac.com> wrote:
> >
> > > That’s even worse.
> > >
> > > AB
> > >
> > > > On Aug 7, 2015, at 9:12 AM, Douglas Sharp <douglas.sharp at gmx.de>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > AFAIK Marketing is now the top level and covers customer relations,
> > > repairs, returns, complaints and technical matters.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > > Douglas
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
>
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