[Leica] Kodak Chemistry going forward

Mark Rabiner mark at rabinergroup.com
Wed Dec 3 19:38:35 PST 2014 

When I got out of college I went to a camera store in Oregon City and bought
and inexpensive scale marketed for darkroom use. So I got into darkroom
chemistry from scratch right as I opened my first studio. this was the late
'70's. I also got with it a few nice looking chemicals who's use I could
only guess at  and a self published book which was a huge help:

150 Do it yourself 
Black and white 
Popular  photographic formulas
Edit by Patrick D. Dignan
Copyright 1977
Printed in England.

A third a of the book is on "the wonders of Phenidone" and it had substitute
formulas for Microdol and anything else you could think of. Including some
ascorbic acid developers one of the few facets of the book I didn't look
into over time.
Most importantly it had a second on high acutance developers. One of them
being Beutler's. That gave my prints a look that none of the photographers I
knew could match. None of them has a set of scales.
My signature film was Panatomic X which I shot at asa 50.


On 12/3/14 8:02 PM, "Paul Roark" <roark.paul at gmail.com> wrote:

> I actually found Xtol to be inconsistent with my Tech Pan film.  One huge
> batch gave me one ISO one year, and the next batch cut that in half.  So, I
> gave up on it.
> 
> For my ink mixing I've reverse engineered the sufactants/wetting agents I
> use -- Photo Flo 200 and Edwal LFN.  Getting the giant companies to sell
> small amounts of the key ingredients to photographers is one thing I'm
> trying to negotiate right now.  But, I'm assuming much of the chemistry
> will disappear or be very expensive.  Both B&H and Adorama will no longer
> ship Photo Flo (and Dow says it's not do to the Triton X-100 active
> ingredient).  In Europe they are already scarce if no totally gone.  So,
> bottom line, I'm assuming we'd better be able to make our own soups.  (I
> did that originally with POTA developer for Tech Pan.  It's a hassle, no
> doubt about it.)
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> wrote:
> 
>> Yes it does and I used it at 1:3 to make sure of that.
>> Will be interested to see though at least for me how the Metol/phenidone
>> might look instead. But coming from me I may never know I'll be seeing it
>> from others.
>> 
>> p-Methylaminophenol sulfate
>> HOC6H4NH2(CH3)]HSO4
>> Known as:
>> Elon
>> Genol
>> Graphol
>> p-Hydroxymethylaniline Sulfate
>> Methylaminophenol Sulfate
>> Metol
>> Monomethyl-p-Amino-Phenol Sulfate
>> Monol
>> Pertol
>> Photol
>> Photo-Rex
>> Pictol
>> Planetol
>> Rhodol
>> Satrapol
>> Scalol
>> Vera
>> 
>> 
>> Woof!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 12/3/14 3:25 PM, "Lew Schwartz" <lew1716 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> XTOL/MYTOL both create good adjacency effects at higher dilutions, same
>> as
>>> D76.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Lew Schwartz
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 2:29 PM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> The reason why I'd really look forward to trying the D76 with ascorbic
>> acid
>>>> is the Metol used instead of Phenidone.
>>>> Xtol is not a pushing formula you are using the iso number on your box
>> of
>>>> film. Same as D76 for the most part.
>>>> Metol I prefer to Phenidone because its a sharper and more clearer
>> looking
>>>> developer than Phenidone. Much better adjacency effects. Good ones.
>>>> So if Xtol goes under you can mix up your own with Phenidone or
>> Metol/Elon
>>>> whatever you want. I'd go with the latter. Or at least try it. The
>> water in
>>>> NY has a varied history.
>>>> 
>>>> Xtol has been a miracle paradigm shifter for darkroom work. But its
>> miracle
>>>> mainly is the use of acerbic acid as a developing agent. And that can be
>>>> applied to a lot of different pre existing formulas even ones not based
>> on
>>>> Phenidone.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 12/3/14 2:13 PM, "Lew Schwartz" <lew1716 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> The phenidone in XTOL affords a reliably higher iso than D76 type
>>>>> developers (at the cost of pushability), plus you can replenish XTOL
>> with
>>>>> more XTOL. The same is true for the published MYTOL formulas. I used
>> the
>>>>> same 1gal of XTOL, replenished for each roll of film, for over a year
>>>>> before I started digital. It was still working just fine when I dumped
>>>> it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Lew Schwartz
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> If you added a tap of ascorbic acid (vitamins C) as a friend of mine
>>>> did to
>>>>>> just mixed up D76 1:1 you'd find the results not that far from Xtol
>> and
>>>>>> maybe even better. Actually a lot of people did this. Still doing it
>>>> maybe.
>>>>>> Xtol without the fear.
>>>>>> If your ascorbic acid (maybe just get some in powder from either from
>> a
>>>>>> drugstore or a photo place) is a little chunky looking as in not fully
>>>>>> dissolved I'd not worry about it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 12/3/14 12:12 PM, "Lew Schwartz" <lew1716 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> As I get ready to resume darkroom work, I'm looking to mix up my
>>>>>> favorite,
>>>>>>> XTOL. I'm apprehensive that it's availability is uncertain due to the
>>>>>>> bankruptcy. I'm surprised, however, not to find any concern about
>> this
>>>>>>> anywhere. Has Kodak assured us that the photo chemical division is
>>>> alive
>>>>>> &
>>>>>>> well going forward?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -Lew Schwartz
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Mark William Rabiner
>>>>>> Photographer
>>>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Mark William Rabiner
>>>> Photographer
>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Mark William Rabiner
>> Photographer
>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information




-- 
Mark William Rabiner
Photographer
http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/

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