Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2023/04/28

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Subject: [Leica] Leica lens quality as a forerunner to another "lens" race.
From: sonc.hegr at gmail.com (Sonny Carter)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2023 19:42:32 -0500
References: <CA+3n+_=NpprEEoy_YVnGauF9UpjQKaMqgg5UVZModskDhT1U1Q@mail.gmail.com> <86c1969d-aafb-7860-344f-6a6e5ce96b41@gmail.com> <000001d97a09$ccaf86d0$660e9470$@nelonassociates.com> <CAF8hL-GDTNJiRBPVX5edfD9B2JpbbCA5Qrk+mCX-d84LinQKcg@mail.gmail.com>

Richard,

Doctor, lawyer and Indian Chief comes from the lyrics of a Betty Hutton
Song.  It was also part of a popular jump rope chant.

https://youtu.be/zZYYqQInrDg




On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 7:01 PM Richard Man <richard at imagecraft.com> 
wrote:

> Not sure if "Indian Chiefs" should be used, just saying.
>
> My M9 got destroyed by fire, and I bought an M10, the original, for a
> reasonable for Leica price. Love it. No wish to upgrade even if I could
> afford it. The M10 embodies the best of the original Leica philosophy.
>
> On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 12:44?PM jnelon <jnelon at nelonassociates.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Well said.
> >
> > James R. Nelon
> > Partner
> > WNDA Studios
> > O: +1.207.389.4676
> > C: +1.508.308.6525
> > Email: JNelon at WNDAStudios.com
> > Website: https://WNDAStudios.com
> > LinkedIn: https://LinkedIn.com/in/JamesNelon
> > Highlight Reel: https://Vimeo.com/252904552
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: LUG <lug-bounces+jnelon=nelonassociates.com at leica-users.org> On
> > Behalf Of Frank Filippone via LUG
> > Sent: Friday, April 28, 2023 1:57 PM
> > To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> > Cc: Frank Filippone <bmwred735i at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Leica] Leica lens quality as a forerunner to another "lens"
> > race.
> >
> > I am really interested in what you have said.....especially in light of
> > what Dr. Kauffman has said about computational photography.
> >
> > There is a major and basic decision you must reach as a company... do you
> > want to cheapen your costs to the minimum or do you want to create THE
> BEST.
> >
> > For Nikon, Canon and other mainstream photo brands, obviously it is more
> > profitable to reduce costs.
> >
> > And by corollary, to allow THE BEST to be made by others. ( ignore this
> > segment of the market).  It suits their economies of scale.  It suits the
> > pure number of employees they have.  It suits their heritage and it suits
> > their Management.  Said simply, it suits their profit motives.
> >
> > The move from a mechanical camera to the almost totally digital
> > digi-cameras was a major move for them.  ( and genius of the old Minolta
> > folk at Sony.... )
> >
> > But back to the main story, Kauffman has talked a lot about computational
> > photography.  The use of computers to fix stuff in an image.  But HIS
> > engineers are busy making $10,000 lenses that are close to perfection as
> is
> > currently possible.  The computational photography side of the business
> is
> > relegated to developing "stuff" on contract for other companies....
> >  Including Huawei.
> >
> > Why speak out of both sides of your mouth?  It could be misdirection of
> > strategy, or simply a way to remain in business.  Leica can not compete
> on
> > volume or price. It's main market must be a niche.
> >
> > That Leica niche is not computational photography, it is optical
> > superiority.
> >
> > The market they play in is one of rich Doctors, Lawyers and Indian
> > Chiefs.  It is NOT Mr. Joe Average.  It is NOT Mr Pro Photographer.
> >
> > A few photographers make their livelihoods using Leica cameras and
> > lenses.  But the vast majority do not.  Pros just can not afford the
> costs,
> > initial or updating.  It makes no business sense.
> >
> > And thus it is....... that we as amateurs (rich Doctors, Lawyers and
> > Indian Chiefs) and retirees are Leica's market segment.
> >
> > Can we actually see the difference compared to CaNikon?  Does it matter?
> > We want to know we are using THE BEST.
> >
> > And we can afford ( main word there!) to buy THE BEST.
> >
> > And as long as we or our kids want the same, Leica will produce THE BEST
> > for us.
> >
> > Because they have no other choice.
> >
> > Frank Filippone
> > BMWRed735i at Gmail.com
> >
> > On 4/28/2023 3:55 AM, Don Dory via LUG wrote:
> > > Greetings to all.  As many know I was at the LSI Spring meeting at the
> > > Leica headquarters in NJ.  As usual Leica provides their latest gear
> > > on loan for a day.  I had the opportunity to use the M11 Monochrome
> > > with my ASPH Summilux(s) and the 28 APO Summicron.  I have to say that
> > > the sensor is way ahead of the lenses and your budget should include
> > > several of the APO lenses if you go to the M11 M.
> > >
> > > Another point, the existing plug in software doesn't properly
> > > recognize the M11M files so you are reliant on the built in Adobe
> > > features or possibly the Capture One that is offered with the
> > > M11M(James H.) would have more information on that.
> > >
> > > As an aside, I believe that the Japanese camera makers are proceeding
> > > in a different direction with software enabled lens correction.  I
> > > know that the lenses I mount on high res Sony cameras all seem to
> > > deliver more detail than I could get out of the M11M with existing
> > > software.  The information is there in the files so it is no fault of
> > > the camera but more that the files are currently not well supported.
> > >
> > > I had the chance to talk to a high ranking individual within the Leica
> > > organization at breakfast.  The gist was that Leica was proceeding on
> > > an optical solution rather than a software enabled solution.  Probably
> > > the better solution as if the information is there software can take
> > > it to an even higher level.  However, it puts Leica on a cost
> > > effective curve that makes their products even more exclusive: also,
> > > it hurts production volume as some of their designs have very high
> > defect rates by Leica standards.
> > > Obviously this drives an even higher price point.
> > >
> > > Last, one of the participants received a survey from Leica with one
> > > question about Japanese production of lenses at a (much) lower price
> > > point.  So, Leica is aware of the pricing problem and is trying to
> > > work on it.
> > >
> > > Last, this Leica representative clarified the classic stool of any
> > product:
> > > price, size, performance.  You could have any two.  I am currently
> > > weighing this as I own several of Sigma's most excellent lenses for the
> > FE mount.
> > > Their performance is magnificent however the average weight is in the
> > > neighborhood of 1.5 kilograms compared to my 35 ASPH Summilux in the
> > > high
> > > 300 grams.  The Sigma is a better lens but my shoulder and hand don't
> > > appreciate the weight as much as my eyes appreciate the image quality.
> > >
> > > On the positive side, Leica lenses still retain a significant resale
> > > advantage.
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leica Users Group.
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leica Users Group.
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >
>
>
> --
> // richard http://imagecraft.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information

-- 
Regards,

Sonny
http://sonc.com <http://sonc.com/look/>
Natchitoches, Louisiana
1714
Oldest Permanent Settlement in the Louisiana Purchase

USA


In reply to: Message from don.dory at gmail.com (Don Dory) ([Leica] Leica lens quality as a forerunner to another "lens" race.)
Message from bmwred735i at gmail.com (Frank Filippone) ([Leica] Leica lens quality as a forerunner to another "lens" race.)
Message from jnelon at nelonassociates.com (jnelon) ([Leica] Leica lens quality as a forerunner to another "lens" race.)
Message from richard at imagecraft.com (Richard Man) ([Leica] Leica lens quality as a forerunner to another "lens" race.)