Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2019/07/23
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]I don?t want to live under unfettered ANYTHING. ric > On Jul 23, 2019, at 4:46 AM, Sonny Carter via LUG <lug at leica-users.org> > wrote: > > Jay, I would disagree with you that something for nothing is even an issue > for most Americans. We?d like for people of means to share in the costs of > the common services we get. Many of us would like for those with little > means to have adequate housing and food. Many of us wish that if we have a > health issue in our elderly years, it won?t mean a loss of assets we?ve > built up in a lifetime of work. Not something for nothing. Not that at > all. > > SonC > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 2:38 AM Jayanand Govindaraj via LUG < > lug at leica-users.org> wrote: > >> There was no insult intended. The fact really is that Americans do not >> understand what Socialism is, and how it kills initiative. That is why >> they >> flock behind charlatans like Bernie Sanders, because getting something for >> nothing is inherently attractive to most people. You know about it in >> theory, after reading deeply about it, I know about it in practice, I have >> lived this every day of my life. >> >> Cheers >> Jayanand >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 23-Jul-2019, at 12:30, Christopher Crawford < >> chris at chriscrawfordphoto.com> wrote: >>> >>> Jayanand, >>> >>> I have spent a considerable portion of my life studying the history of >> the Soviet Union. I have no illusions about what life was like there. >> Compared to the US, life was hard and the people there had little in the >> way of material possessions. Worse than that, they had no political >> freedom. That said, damn near every household in Soviet Russia owned a >> television from the 1960s onward. This is because the Soviet government >> made a special effort to make sure that TVs were produced in large numbers >> and sold cheap to ensure that everyone had one. They didn't do it out of >> the kindness of their hearts; the Communists saw TV as an excellent >> propaganda tool. Propaganda is only effective if it is accessible, so they >> put the effort into making TV accessible. >>> >>> India has never been a dictatorship of the sort that Communist countries >> are, so the propaganda value of TV didn't matter to India's government. >> Your story about 25 year waits for a Vespa is similar to the way >> automobiles were sold to Russian workers in the USSR. I don't think anyone >> waited 25 years for one; but waits of 10-15 years were not unheard of, and >> the cars were small, crappy, unreliable junk that cost a lot of money. Few >> Russians tried to buy one. >>> >>> I knew, as a historian who has studied the USSR, why TVs were >> commonplace in the Soviet Union. I don't know as much about your country >> and asked a simple question because I was curious. There was no need to >> insult me, or the American people. The really stupid people don't ask >> questions at all because they have no intellectual curiosity. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Chris Crawford >>> Fine Art Photography >>> Fort Wayne, Indiana >>> 260-437-8990 >>> >>> http://www.chriscrawfordphoto.com My portfolio >>> >>> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Christopher-Crawford/48229272798 >>> Like My Work on Facebook >>> >>> >>> ?On 7/22/19, 11:53 PM, "LUG on behalf of Jayanand Govindaraj via LUG" >> <lug-bounces+chris=chriscrawfordphoto.com at leica-users.org on behalf of >> lug at leica-users.org> wrote: >>> >>> TV was a luxury that the masses did not deserve, according to the >>> Government in those days. The waiting queue for a Vespa scooter in >> those >>> days was 25 years - you paid an advance, then waited 25 years for the >>> delivery to come. None of you Americans have the faintest clue on what >>> living in a socialist economy is like, with centrally planned economic >>> policies, and licenses to manufacture anything, even a pencil, >> leading to >>> shortages of everything starting from food, and rampant corruption >>> everywhere to obtain the semi monopolistic licenses. You have this >> woolly >>> picture of a Socialist Workers Paradise, which is utter nonsense. I >> know >>> the delicious thought of pick pocketing the capitalist rich to obtain >>> freebies for oneself is alluring, but it just does not work. Another >> class >>> of exploiters will just take their place. In truth, to quote (I think) >>> Orwell of Koestler, "Socialism feels like paradise till you reach >> there". >>> >>> I would think a rereading of Animal Farm and The God That Failed >> should be >>> in order. >>> >>> Cheers >>> Jayanand >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 8:39 AM Christopher Crawford < >>> chris at chriscrawfordphoto.com> wrote: >>> >>>> How did socialism keep people from having TV in India? There were a lot >> of >>>> countries far more socialist than India that had television long before >>>> 1982 (The Soviet Union, for example). >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Chris Crawford >>>> Fine Art Photography >>>> Fort Wayne, Indiana >>>> 260-437-8990 >>>> >>>> http://www.chriscrawfordphoto.com My portfolio >>>> >>>> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Christopher-Crawford/48229272798 >>>> Like My Work on Facebook >>>> >>>> >>>> ?On 7/22/19, 10:05 PM, "LUG on behalf of Jayanand Govindaraj via LUG" >>>> <lug-bounces+chris=chriscrawfordphoto.com at leica-users.org on behalf >>>> of >>>> lug at leica-users.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> I was in college at that time. We were still in the clutches of full >>>> fledged Fabian Socialist hell in those days in India, so there was no TV >>>> service at all in the country (which made a pan India entrance, >> gingerly, >>>> though only in urban areas in 1982, for the Asian Games). I remember >>>> hearing it on radio, followed by the photographs in LIFE magazine which >>>> followed soon after. >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> Jayanand >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 23-Jul-2019, at 07:24, Peter Klein via LUG <lug at leica-users.org> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> In July 1969, I was working at a summer camp in rural >>>> Massachusetts. The night of July 20, when Neil Armstrong and Buzz >> Aldrin >>>> landed on the moon, we counselors were invited up to the camp director's >>>> house to watch the moon walk. The adults were all out for the night, so >> we >>>> had a critical mass of unsupervised 15-22 year-olds. With predicable >>>> results. Many of the assembled used the opportunity to tell raunchy >> jokes, >>>> smoke cigarettes, and if they had a willing partner, make out (*). I >>>> remember being irritated that it was hard to understand what the >> astronauts >>>> were saying. I was absolutely enthralled by the moon landing, space-nerd >>>> that I was (and still am). >>>>> >>>>> At one point, I remember wondering if we could ever look at the moon >>>> the same way again. Would the sight of the moon still be romantic, now >>>> that people had walked on it? Walking back to my cabin later, I got my >>>> answer. The full moon was just as romantic as ever, maybe more so. And >> I >>>> so wished that I had a girlfriend to make out with under it. :-) That >>>> would have to wait a couple of years. >>>>> >>>>> --Peter >>>>> >>>>> (*) For people for whom English is not your first language, "making >>>> out" is mid-century slang for hugging, kissing, petting, etc., as long >> as >>>> the "etc." didn't go beyond a certain point. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > -- > Regards, > > Sonny > http://sonc.com/look/ > Natchitoches, Louisiana > 1714 > Oldest Permanent Settlement in the Louisiana Purchase > > USA > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information