[Leica] Looking for 8x10 (and 4x5) "throwaways"

[photo.forrest1 at gmail.com (Philip Forrest)]

I don't think I overreacted at all. The initial comment was just
insensitive but this group has often sided with "traditional" ways of
thinking that are insensitive. For example, no one reacted at all to
the "cheeky" comment in this thread about a "native boy" to carry
around the P2. Call me sensitive, call me what you will but this
thinking and commentary, however harmless it may seem, comes from a
place deeply rooted in a caste society. These days, in the USA and some
places abroad, it has become more acceptable to be offensive to
whomever, especially on the internet, so that door swings both ways.
I don't want to make any personal attacks, but as I have said in the
past, there are just a few antiquated ways of communicating out
there that bolster insensitivity and keep some very old and unsavory
thoughts alive.

Phil Forrest



On Sat, 17 Jun 2017 14:58:30 -0500
"Bill Pearce" <billcpearce at cox.net> wrote:

> Richard, don't despair. I found what you wrote clever and touching,
> as something like an 8x10 Sinar has little value today and should be
> used, as you will, rather that being placed on a tripod and set up as
> a display in someone's den, not to mention the amount of 8x10
> processing and printing gear that has been placed in a dumpster. But
> we must all understand that the internet has increased everyone's
> sensitivity and the threshold for overreaction has fallen.
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Richard Man
> Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2017 4:35 AM
> To: photo.forrest1 at gmail.com
> Cc: Leica Users Group
> Subject: Re: [Leica] Looking for 8x10 (and 4x5) "throwaways"
> 
> Phil, we all struggle. I work literally 7 days a week, more than 12
> hours each day on average. I won't go into the finance situation as
> it ain't pretty.
> 
> However, I do know what poor is. I grew up in HK and your living, bad
> as it is, frankly would be a lot more than I had. I was born in a
> shanty town where it was burned down when I was 3 (look up fire in
> Hong Kong shanty towns in the 50s and 60s) and it went from there.
> 
> Nevertheless, I apologize if my "poor" choice of words offends. First
> of all, I was literally asking people that "if they are going to
> throw things out, or let them sit in the closets until end of days,
> hey, I can and will use them."
> 
> As for my photography, yes, I still have some equipment. A lot less
> Leica than before. I don't make money with photography (I have tried,
> but I don't have time to do commercial photography and my photos
> don't sell as arts), however, I do pursue it with all my passion. I
> bought a 4x5 4 years ago, trading this and that. For the past 3
> years, I have been doing personal projects that mean something to me,
> and fortunately, some patrons, friends, and groups have given me
> grants and money.
> 
> You know how I went to Pittsburgh to photograph 60+ sheets on the
> author's project a month ago? The group paid me $600 to take official
> photos, which almost covered the plane fare. A friend, whom I never
> met before, let me stay in her house (for free). I took the bus in
> every day to go to the convention center, and I ate every single meal
> for 4 days except one in the free "con suite". I have Patreon patrons
> that gift me enough to buy some film. As it is, I still have to pay
> for the equipment shipping plus others.
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jun 17, 2017 at 2:14 AM, photo.forrest1 at gmail.com <
> photo.forrest1 at gmail.com> wrote:  
> 
> > Apologies if I've seemed overly sensitive but I have a place I'm
> > coming from as well. I have struggled as a photographer, not with
> > the craft but the marketing and opportunity. For 12 years now since
> > my Navy career I've tried to make a meagre living (or sometimes
> > make anything at all) doing what I love. Photography, all different
> > aspects of it. I finished a degree in journalism and In 2012 I
> > wound up homelessly couch surfing, again living
> > solely by the good grace of friends, while busting my ass in Philly
> > and NYC
> > just to get a part time position that paid $10.75/hr + X per photo
> > and Y per word (I forgot the rates but they were LOW.)
> > I have finally given up on photography for anything other than my
> > own happy snaps and these last two years of this "transition" have
> > been horrible on my psyche. I gave up that struggle and am trying
> > to come to grips with giving up what I have called my identy for a
> > few decades. I guess my time passed when I was in the Navy and that
> > is that. It was a good
> > run.
> > The whole "give me stuff" angle irked me a bit too because I saved
> > up for 5 months to buy an old wood field camera with a bellows that
> > was swiss cheese plus a half dozen old riteway holders. Saved up
> > for three more months to buy a lens and a replacement bellows. Then
> > saved for another month to buy a 50 sheet box of Arista film in
> > spite of wanting 50 sheets of
> > TriX that was 3x as much. Maybe I just have more humility than to
> > ask but I'm very proud of my little kit I've put together over the
> > past year. My girlfriend and I live in a crappy neighborhood in
> > Philly with some of the worst rates of the city's heroin and meth
> > ODs. Drug dealers in any direction, occasional gunfire (weekly,)
> > people along the streets cooking various meats and veggies to both
> > eat and sell; cooking on creosote treated
> > wood like old telephone poles and rail ties nonetheless.
> > We live paycheck to paycheck with just a tiny bit of savings. I'm
> > beginning grad school soon as is my girlfriend, we're both going to
> > become therapists. We'll still be low income as students but
> > considering where we live and how fortunate we are to have what we
> > do, we don't have the audacity to call ourselves poor.
> > Sorry to get on a high horse about this but it is a topic near and
> > dear to me.
> >
> > Phil Forrest
> >
> >
> > gallery.leica-users.org/v/philforrest/
> >
> > ------ Original message------
> > *From: *Richard Man
> > *Date: *Sat, Jun 17, 2017 04:45
> > *To: *photo.forrest1 at gmail.com;
> > *Cc: *Leica Users Group;
> > *Subject:*Re: [Leica] Looking for 8x10 (and 4x5) "throwaways"
> >
> > Hmm... obviously I didn't mean to offend. Sorry my enthusiasm get
> > in the way.
> >
> > If people are hung up on the word, yes, in many level, I am not
> > poor. After all, I do live in where I am. However, I am literally
> > mortgaging our future for some new product development and there
> > are lots of business and personal stuff that I am not going to blah
> > about on a forum.
> >
> > However, I try not to be mean to people, including sending people
> > in need money, drove 8 hours to see friends in need for 2 hours,
> > and max out our credit cards just so that a dying friend can have
> > some good meals.
> >
> > But whatever.
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 17, 2017 at 1:19 AM, photo.forrest1 at gmail.com <  
> > photo.forrest1 at gmail.com> wrote:  
> >  
> >> Yeah, I find this just a bit offensive, on a few different levels.
> >>
> >> Phil Forrest
> >>
> >> gallery.leica-users.org/v/philforrest/
> >>
> >> ------ Original message------
> >> *From: *Richard Man
> >> *Date: *Fri, Jun 16, 2017 21:03
> >> *To: *Leica Users Group;
> >> *Cc: *
> >> *Subject:*[Leica] Looking for 8x10 (and 4x5) "throwaways"
> >>
> >> I am poor, nice people gift me stuff. Now I have a Sinar P2  8x10 
> >> (Holymother of gods, what a beautiful piece of machine....) So if
> >> you any 8x10stuff (film, film holders, lens, loupe etc.) that are
> >> sitting around, Iwill probably take them. Same go with 4x5
> >> stuff...Thanks-- // richard http://imagecraft.comBeyond Arduino -
> >> When you're ready to get serious...JumpStart C Tools for Atmel AVR
> >> and Cortex-M, The Better
> >> Alternative_______________________________________________Leica
> >> Users Group.See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for
> >> more information
> >>
> >>  
> >
> >
> > --
> > // richard http://imagecraft.com
> > Beyond Arduino - When you're ready to get serious...
> > JumpStart C Tools for Atmel AVR and Cortex-M, The Better Alternative
> >  
> 
> 
>