Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2017/06/05
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Thank you Frank, I?m not sure that my problem is only the grain alliasing, probably a certain part of it, it is. My scanner is not a very good one, I use a Plustek film scanner and a flatbed Epson V700, both with Vuescan, the Epson scanner offer images more smooth but less sharp than the Plustek, I usually edit my work on Capture One, but on my latest works with film I?m using Lightroom because it gives less crispy images than Capture Onne. I?m not sure how to solve the alliasing problem, however is my opinion there are some things that will be never the same in film and in digital. Cheers Lluis > El 5 juny 2017, a les 8:08, Frank Dernie <Frank.Dernie at btinternet.com> > va escriure: > > You seem to be describing grain aliasing in your scans Lluis. I had the > same poor results from the (few) colour film negatives I scanned. I did > not do many, just favourite family snaps, but though scans from Kodachrome > were fine all the scans from fast negative film were as you describe. > Aliasing is actually related to grain size and scan resolution interfering > with each other, not the fact that inkjet printers work in dots - chemical > prints are made up of dots too (the silver grains are dots not continuous). > Your scanner is almost certainly your problem, not your printer or digital > v chemical photography. > cheers, > Frank D. > > >> On 4 Jun 2017, at 20:23, lluisripollphotography <lluisripollphotography >> at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Gerry, Jayanand and other friends >> >> What I can say is obvious, film and digital technologies are different, >> they work in different ways and maybe it is a mistake compare them. What >> I can say and afirm is that if you have a negative from film, you print >> it and you also you enlarge it in the darkroom the results are much >> better from the darkroom procedure, for example, one of the prints I?ve >> do on my EPSON SC-P600 on Canson Platine Fiber Rag size A3 and the same >> enlarged on Ilford Baryta Multigrade, same size, the resukts are much, >> much, much better from the chemical process, the digital printing offers >> an approximate view with less gradation, les definition and deepness on >> the blacks and on the highlights, on this picture there is sand and very >> shiny sea waves, in the inkjet print the sand appears as many small pints >> and the highlights without information, on the wet copy you see a rich >> extended zones of grey on the sand and information on the highlights. If >> you take the focusing magnifier used n the darkroom and lou look at the >> picture information from digital, you see big drops of ink, if you look >> at the wet copy you see fine points of grain. The printers still ?don?t >> know print in a fine gradation, they know only input points (drops if >> ink)?. If we ONLY look at the picture on the monitor the differences are >> less evident, the monitirs are retro?luminated and they give us a better >> suggestion of the image, if you consider as I do, that the final picture >> is the picture, I?m sorry to be so ?brave? as Gerry says but the wet copy >> is the winner. >> >> A different think is if you have shot something on digital, in my opinion >> on this case you are already to work with the digital values, they can >> differ from film values. In my recent experience in the darkroom with a >> friend who know very well the B&W negative values, he has demonstrate me >> measuring the negatives zones with a densitomer that separation and >> information between the different zones, particularly on the extreme >> zones 0, 1 and 9 and 10 is more rich with film. I?ve do Digital >> Negatives, an interesting technique to get chemical prints from digital >> files, not easy, and at least in my experience the final quality is not >> as good as a copy from a real negative, I think because the original >> amount of information is not the same, when you make a Digtal Negative >> you print it, and I have already said which are the inconvenients of a >> printer procedure compared with a chemical one. >> >> Beside this there are many possible interpretations as well as compromise >> and in many cases digital could be enough, but what I?ve realized is that >> if I have a nice picture to print, I prefer have it from film and do it >> on the darkroom than in inkjet printing. >> >> Cheers >> Lluis >> >> >> >> >>> El 4 juny 2017, a les 9:30, Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com> >>> va escriure: >>> >>> Dan, >>> Oh, I am sure of that! >>> >>> I feel that digital output is still better than darkroom output, though, >>> even for B&W. IMHO, there is simply no comparison, in the complete >>> workflow, from capture to print. As I said, others may have different >>> opinions and I respect that - I know Lluis does, and we have discussed >>> this >>> many, many times privately, and in the end we just amicably agree to >>> disagree, and go on with what suits us individually! However, I find the >>> exchange of views very useful, leading to invaluable insights. >>> >>> Cameras are tools for me, and digital cameras, Fuji & Nikon, one for >>> street >>> and one for wildlife, are my tools of choice at this point of time. The >>> Fuji GFX50S is tempting, and exerting a siren's song, but I cannot see >>> how >>> I have any use for it that makes it superior to my existing gear, for my >>> type of photography, and the sizes I print at present. A printer that >>> accepts 24" wide paper, instead of 17" that my Epson 3885 uses might be a >>> better choice right now! >>> >>> I have a fair amount of film camera equipment gathering dust on my >>> shelves >>> and in the bank locker, more, I am sure, than most of the most committed >>> film shooters around - Leica IIIF and IIIG, Nikon F Apollo. F2AS, >>> F3Titanium, F4, F100, Canon and Nikon Rangefinders, Rollei TLRs, Mamiya >>> 645E - except for the Leicas, all of them were originally bought by my >>> family - uncles, aunts, father, myself - and finally found their way to >>> me. >>> Most of these are with me because I did not have the wit (or the heart) >>> to >>> sell them in time. This after selling most of my Leica film equipment in >>> London a few years ago (M3, M2, R6.2 and 10 lenses)! >>> >>> Pens and watches, on the other hand, are hobbies, passions which make >>> them >>> an emotional issue, while cameras are just a utilitarian one! I am >>> particularly fond of JLR and IWC in watches, and Pelikan as well as the >>> Japanese trio, Namiki/Pilot, Sailor and Platinum as far as pens are >>> concerned, and primarily these are what I use. >>> >>> Cheers >>> Jayanand >>> >>> On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Dan Khong <dankhong at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Jayanand >>>> >>>> You might be more analog oriented than you think. >>>> >>>> I actually like collecting and using old fully mechanical watches and >>>> apart >>>> from the antique look, almost all that I have are accurate and they run >>>> like clockwork. I also write with fountain pens in my work and cheap >>>> ones >>>> perform really well. So it looks that we have much in common. >>>> >>>> Dan K. >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at >>>> gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I disagree, I think film is nowhere as good as digital, but to each his >>>>> own.....:-) (Hey - I use mechanical watches and fountain pens!!!) >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Jayanand >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 3:18 AM, lluisripollphotography < >>>>> lluisripollphotography at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Gerry, Dan >>>>>> >>>>>> I?m agree of course, but film is not only nostalgia, it is better >>>> quality >>>>>> than pixels technologies? >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers >>>>>> Lluis >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> El 3 juny 2017, a les 23:23, Dan Khong <dankhong at gmail.com> va >>>>> escriure: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Lluis >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Film and darkroom is far from dead. Ilford is revived as >>>> Harman-Ilford. >>>>>>> Kodak still makes films both for still photography and >>>> cinematographic >>>>>>> industry. Seems Star Wars and latest Bond movie were shot on film. >>>> Once >>>>>> in >>>>>>> a while, I set up my darkroom (bedroom for the dry part and >>>> connecting >>>>>>> bathroom for the wet part) and enlarge a dozen prints. Nothing beats >>>>> the >>>>>>> smell of fixer for nostalgia. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bests >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dan K. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Jun 3, 2017 at 6:34 PM, lluisripollphotography < >>>>>>> lluisripollphotography at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jayanand, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The best B&W is from the darkroom, now I?ve been back I regret to >>>> have >>>>>>>> spent so much time and money on digital?. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>>> Lluis >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> El 16 maig 2017, a les 5:05, Jayanand Govindaraj < >>>> jayanand at gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>>>> va escriure: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If it catches anybody's fancy! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/175814937/filmlab-an- >>>>>>>> app-for-viewing-and-digitizing-analog-f >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>>>> Jayanand >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>>> information >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>>> information >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information