Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2014/04/07
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Nice post Rabs I just brought home this months American Photo it's green white and grey the grey is the shot by Elliot Erwitt of Arthur Miller. Looking a lot to me like Richard Avedon to me they bear a striking resemblance. Its the May/June issue $4.99. Glad it didn't cost five bucks!?! In it if you get to page 46 in a thing called Legends in the Field is a thing on Joel Meyerowitz. A guy bigly responsible for color street photography being cool and also he used after a lot of Leica shooting an 8x10 view camera for the past several decades. In the street. You're not supposed to be able to do that. It says he's gong inexplicably "still life crazy" as it was hot as hell where he was staying in Tuscany or France and there is a page of 25 squarish vertical "Cezanne's Objects, 2013. "he reached for his Leica S2 and started to photograph the items in a darkened hayloft. Anyways with the S2 being used by the top most people to the tune of Joel Meyerowitz there is bound to be a trickle down effect where working photogs of all ilk's and enthusiastic enthusiasts with bigger bank accounts will also use them and already are using them.. They look just like a classy DSLR who would know they were near medium format and totally blast the results you'd get from Canon Nikon out the window? The fast that a great photog has started using it after decades of 8x10 use may bring a clue. On 4/7/14 10:47 PM, "Mark Rabiner" <mark at rabinergroup.com> wrote: > Leica did not give up on the idea of coming out with a Leica premium DSLR. > They just didn't want to base I on the R mount they decided wisely to up > the > ante and base it on a larger format and with a new line of modern auto > focus > lenes. > > A Leica M now with its primo glass gives a clear reason visible in results > why > if you and the money you'd want to go with it over Nikon or Canon.. and if > you > were cool with the rangefinder thing. > > A Leica S gives an even more dramatic upgrade in the DSLR arena for your > final results with its larger format and super primo auto focus and cutting > edge second to none modern glass. > > Either way DSLR or rangefinder, S or M, you turn when you are paying a lot > extra for Leica you are seeing a lot extra in the final result > > Its high times for Leica. > There were a few decades there when the results advantage Leica had over > Nikon > was less dramatic. The smart move was to just use both. > > Now I think when you blow your wad on a Leica S or M system you are not > just > wasting your money on a prestige thing. > > > > On 4/7/14 9:05 PM, "Jim Laurel (gmail)" <jplaurel at gmail.com> wrote: > >> It's painfully obvious why Leica abandoned the R system. The SLR market >> had >> become commoditized by competitors with much lower costs of production. >> Modern >> optical design software and computer aided machining was making it >> possible >> for these other manufacturers to manufacture lenses of extremely high >> quality >> at much lower prices. The advent of the digital SLR would shift consumer >> focus >> from quality and precision to features. Megapixels would sell cameras now, >> and >> some competitors, notably Canon, had the capability to design and >> manufacture >> sensors in house. Competing would also mean somehow adapting the R lens >> line >> for autofocus, and in doing so, the lenses would no longer have the silky >> precision feel for which they were so renowned. >> >> Another factor was the global economic downturn. It always makes me smile >> when >> I read forum posts where people say that Leica should have more reasonably >> priced products. In fact, they are doing just the opposite, and rightfully >> so. >> In the current market, you have a small group of people who can afford >> things >> like $11k Noctiluxes and $7k camera bodies. And for those people, the >> steady >> rise in prices over the last decade is fairly irrelevant. They are more >> than >> happy to pay those prices in exchange for quality, design and cache, >> perceived >> or otherwise. And they can afford those prices regardless of the state of >> the >> economy, while the majority of consumers struggle to buy anything at all. >> In >> this light, Leica's decision to focus on these consumers is very sensible. >> >> Focusing on the M line and keeping prices high has numerous advantages: >> 1. It is the most iconic of Leica products, and stands to benefit the most >> from Leica's image and heritage. >> 2. It is a niche product, so few/no other manufacturers would find it >> worthwhile to field a competing product. >> 3. The experience of using and handling an M rangefinder and its lenses >> highlights traditional Leica strengths of quality and precision feel. >> 4. Sales numbers are naturally lower, so production can always be kept at >> full >> capacity. In times of high demand, customers are waitlisted, futher >> enhancing >> the exclusivity of the product. >> 5. Customers base is relatively unaffected by economic changes. >> 6. The higher margins afforded by the M line allow Leica to keep >> production >> in >> Germany. If you have ever tried to iteratively design and manufacture >> something in one place, and manufacture it in a distant place with a very >> different time zone, you'll know what a royal PITA it is. Keeping >> production >> in Germany allows them to monitor quality locally, iterate faster on >> design >> and production with people who speak the same language and who work in the >> same building. That alone is a huge benefit to the management and >> employees >> in >> terms of lifestyle. It dramatically reduces all sorts of problems, travel >> expenses, frustration, mistakes misunderstandings, and allows everything >> to >> move faster. >> >> If you ask me, Leica is doing exactly the right things. It will be very >> interesting to learn more about typ 701 and what it means to their >> strategy. >> >> --Jim >> >> >> On Apr 7, 2014, at 5:23 PM, Geoff Hopkinson <hopsternew at gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> They decided to compete with Hasselblad and Phaseone Frank. It is a tiny >>> tiny >>> market yes. Leica's prices there are broadly comparable in fact, they >>> offer >>> something significantly different and they have increased their market >>> share. >>> The R10 body was to have been in the order of twice the price of the pro >>> Canon and Nikon bodies. Now that the medium format sensors are evolving I >>> think that tiny market will be even more interesting. >>> Having been fortunate to shoot an S side by side with my M I promise you >>> that >>> there is a big difference >>> >>> cheers >>> Geoff >>> >>>> On 8 Apr 2014, at 9:24 am, "Frank Filippone" <red735i at verizon.net> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> And so they decided not to compete with the Japanese DSLRs, instead to >>>> compete with the Japanese MF-DSLRs.... A smaller market with entrenched >>>> users, Leica at much higher prices than the competition, and with the >>>> 35mm >>>> DSLR's adding capability, more MP and significantly lower prices than >>>> the >>>> MF-DSLR. >>>> >>>> I do not see a big difference,,,, but then I do not work at Leica. >>>> >>>> I always believed the S product family was a competitive/commercial >>>> mistake.... >>>> >>>> Frank Filippone >>>> Red735i at verizon.net >>>> >>>> >>>> While Leica Camera wanted to provide a vehicle for the existing R lenses >>>> their analysis was that those people on their own were just not a >>>> sufficient >>>> market to make the new camera a commercial success. They elected of >>>> course >>>> to proceed with their 'middle format' S system instead. The R10 at a >>>> much >>>> higher price would have had to compete directly with the Japanese >>>> designs >>>> which dominate the market. At the same time the M9 was in development in >>>> house and concurrent with the S system design and their resources were >>>> stretched. As it turned out the M9 was more successful than was >>>> anticipated >>>> and while the S2 camera got to market the (CS) lenses for it were >>>> delayed. >>>> >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> Geoff >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > -- Mark William Rabiner Photographer http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/