Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2013/09/28

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Subject: [Leica] M8/M9 "pushed" ISO 640 better than 1250
From: images at comporium.net (Tina Manley)
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2013 18:38:10 -0400
References: <52475251.2040209@threshinc.com> <CA+yJO1BWGO8zMGtc8kxWSK3K7giCuOWJCLGBLxsARtdtfwWVsQ@mail.gmail.com> <80F9701439F20347874CE5E4E03C22E9CDE209B4@WhizzMAIL01.whizz.org> <CA+yJO1B+ug7-dPv3gFJ6TZ88+f1-zDsuG5GXC5KfT7-UiPs97A@mail.gmail.com>

The amazing thing is the difference when you view the images at 100%.

Tina


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 6:36 PM, Tina Manley <images at comporium.net> wrote:

> Yes, that's what I'm pointing out in my slide show.
>
> Tina
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 6:27 PM, John McMaster <john at 
> mcmaster.co.nz>wrote:
>
>> That is just a digital adage of expose for the highlights and develop for
>> the shadows....
>>
>> john
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> >
>> > After a lot of experimentation, I have to agree with Thomas Knoll and
>> his
>> > comments in Luminous Landscape that the best signal to noise ration is
>> > obtained if you expose to the right.  I'm speaking on this next week in
>> > Wisconsin.  You can read more about it in Jeff Schewe's excellent book
>> "The
>> > Digital Negative".  It's amazing to me what a difference it makes.
>> >
>> > Tina
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 6:04 PM, Peter Klein <pklein at threshinc.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > When the M8 first came out, some people reported that they got better
>> > > low-light results by underexposing ISO 640 by one stop and
>> > > compensating in their RAW developer, rather than setting the ISO to
>> > > 1250.  I think Tina was one of them.  I tried this myself, didn't like
>> > > either results much, and have pretty much stuck to ISO 640 and lower.
>> > >
>> > > Well, things have changed.  Today's RAW developers are better, and
>> > > this approach does even better than before. I decided to revisit it
>> with my
>> > M8
>> > > and the current Capture One v. 7.   The results are much better than I
>> > > remember with Capture One v.4 (which came with the M8) or even
>> > Capture
>> > > One v.6.  Here are a couple of real-world pictures taken in my den,
>> > > with some deep shadows.
>> > >
>> > > Here's ISO 640 pushed one stop (top) vs. 1250 (bottom):
>> > > <http://gallery.leica-users.**org/d/366816-1/M8-640_**1pushVs1250-
>> > NoNR
>> > > .jpg<http://gallery.leica-users.org/d/366816-1/M8-640_1pushVs1250-
>> > NoNR
>> > > .jpg><
>> > > http://gallery.leica-users.**org/d/366816-1/M8-640_**1pushVs1250-
>> > NoNR.
>> > > jpg<http://gallery.leica-users.org/d/366816-1/M8-640_1pushVs1250-
>> > NoNR.
>> > > jpg>
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> > > ISO 640 pushed two stops (top) vs. 2500 (bottom)
>> > > <http://gallery.leica-users.**org/v/pklein/album170/M8-640_**
>> > > 2pushVs2500-NoNR.jpg.html<
>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/pklein/albu
>> > > m170/M8-640_2pushVs2500-NoNR.jpg.html><
>> > > http://gallery.leica-users.**org/v/pklein/album170/M8-640_**
>> > > 2pushVs2500-NoNR.jpg.html<
>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/pklein/albu
>> > > m170/M8-640_2pushVs2500-NoNR.jpg.html>
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> > > Dim tungsten light, fixed tungsten white balance "as shot" in camera.
>> > > Sharpening and color NR was at default, and Luminance NR was turned
>> > > off to see what we're really getting.
>> > >
>> > > ISO 640 pushed one stop looks decidedly better than 1250 to my eyes.
>> > > Quite usable, actually. I just got another stop out of my M8.
>> > >
>> > > I wouldn't want to use either 2500 or 640 pushed two stops if I had a
>> > > choice. The pushed 640 does look a little better. It might do in B&W
>> > > with some careful NR and black point fussing.
>> > >
>> > > If I recall correctly, C-1 v.7 shows the same default NR numbers for
>> > > all ISOs. "50" is nominal, but behind the scenes it's applying more NR
>> > > when the camera ISO is higher. My rule of thumb at higher ISOs is to
>> > > keep the color NR at default, and use 1/4 to 1/2 the default luminance
>> > > NR. And sometimes I just turn it off, as I prefer a little grit to the
>> > > plastic look.  I'm still experimenting, but I have found that by
>> > > raising the black point a little and using very sparing NR, the
>> pushed ISO 640
>> > picture looks pretty good.
>> > >  The 1250 picture is inherently more muddy and gets more smeary.
>> > >
>> > > The point is that current RAW developers can push the M8 at least one
>> > > stop, so you can get an effective ISO 1250 from 640.  The LUF thread
>> > > shows that the M9 can be pushed even farther.  Current software is way
>> > > better than turning up the electronic amplifier in the M8/9 beyond
>> > > 640.  Sure, the
>> > > M240 and MM are objectively better high-ISO cameras. But if you don't
>> > > wish to change cameras, there's life in that old CCD sensor yet.
>> > >
>> > > There's a whole thread about this on l-camera-forum.com (LUF):
>> > > http://www.l-camera-forum.com/**leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/**
>> > > 301422-m9-iso-performance-new-**life.html<http://www.l-camera-
>> > forum.co
>> > > m/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/301422-m9-iso-performance-new-
>> > life.html>
>> > >
>> > > --Peter
>> > >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Tina Manley
> http:// <http://tina-manley.artistwebsites.com/>www.tinamanley.com
>
>
>


-- 
Tina Manley
http:// <http://tina-manley.artistwebsites.com/>www.tinamanley.com


In reply to: Message from pklein at threshinc.com (Peter Klein) ([Leica] M8/M9 "pushed" ISO 640 better than 1250)
Message from images at comporium.net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] M8/M9 "pushed" ISO 640 better than 1250)
Message from john at mcmaster.co.nz (John McMaster) ([Leica] M8/M9 "pushed" ISO 640 better than 1250)
Message from images at comporium.net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] M8/M9 "pushed" ISO 640 better than 1250)