Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2013/07/02
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Human evolved frontal lobes to avoid doing exactly this to other living things. That frontal lobes evolved suggests that they were beneficial to humans as a species. This is a completely Pyrrhic victory you seem to be celebrating. If you feel that, to be around you people have to grow a thicker skin, you have to ask if people want to be around you that badly. Students, unfortunately, don't have that choice. Jeffery On Jul 2, 2013, at 3:06 PM, Chris Crawford wrote: > Tina made it because she started out a very long time ago. She has stated > that she invested the money she made in better times in the past and used > that to buy her digital Leicas today. Nothing wrong with that, but that > means her experience is not relevant to young ones just starting out. New > photojournalists today do not make the money to buy that stuff. Sorry to > upset you with facts, but that's reality. What I said was true, and will > never apologize for telling the truth to anyone. > > Not one person who has complained about what I said has taken issue with > the facts of what I said, except you. The others knew I was right, but > didn't like those facts, so they attacked the way I said it. I stand by > every word I have written. > > This reminds me of one time a student showed up for class late for the 5th > day in a row. I told him he needed to learn to tell time, which made him > mad. "You're disrespecting me!" I told him to start coming to class on > time, and I'll respect him, which made the rest of the class break out in > laughter. The student started coming to class on time after that. > > 99% of the problem with today's world is people value feelings over facts > and rationality. > > -- > Chris Crawford > Fine Art Photography > Fort Wayne, Indiana > 260-437-8990 > > http://www.chriscrawfordphoto.com My portfolio > > http://www.facebook.com/pages/Christopher-Crawford/48229272798 > Become a fan on Facebook > > > > On 7/2/13 3:51 PM, "Barney Quinn" <bjq1 at mac.com> wrote: > >> >> This is in no sense an improvement. You have, in my view, made things >> worse. The face that your have been abused in your life, or the fact that >> people have said hard things to you in no way, under no circumstances >> provides you with any reasonable justification for abusing or being angry >> with any other human being. Two wrongs to not make a right. That is a >> totally bankrupt moral position. Quite the contrary. Having been hurt it >> should motivate you to take care not to injure others. >> >> What you said to Tina was hurtful. Rewording it so that it says parent, >> partner, boy friend, girlfriend, aunt, uncle, or whomever in no way makes >> the remark acceptable because the core thrust of your comment is that >> Tina can't make it on her own. That is simply not true. She did. I have >> enormous respect for her as a person and as a photographer. I do not >> comment on it all that often, but I very much enjoy her pictures. I >> always make it a point to look at them. >> >> The prime tenant of being in a hole, which is where you are, is to stop >> digging. Wouldn't it be better all around if you put down your shovel, >> stopped digging, admitted you crossed a line you would have been better >> advised not to cross, apologize, and then got on with your photography. >> >> Perhaps you might consider taking the advice you gave Tina. What is it >> about this discussion which has such an emotional hold on you?? >> >> Banrey >> >> >> E-Mail: bjq1 at mac.com >> Home: (301) 654-0938 >> Cell: (301) 775-1386 >> >> >> On Jul 02, 2013, at 02:46 PM, Chris Crawford >> <chris at chriscrawfordphoto.com> wrote: >> >>> Tina, what I said about your husband having to buy you gear wasn't meant >>> to be sexist. If you were not married, I'd have said your parents would >>> have to do it, and if you were a man I'd say wife or parents depending >>> on >>> if you were married. Someone with money would have to buy you the gear >>> you >>> use if you were starting your career now because as a professional >>> photographer, you would absolutely not earn enough yourself to do it. >>> As I >>> said in my original post, that is not a negative comment on the worth of >>> your photographs, it is simply the economic reality in today's world >>> where >>> photojournalists are so poorly paid. As I said in my original post, I >>> make >>> more as a first year high school teacher than fulltime photojournalists >>> I >>> know who have 20-30 yrs experience! >>> >>> The kids at my school caused two of the older teachers to break down >>> crying in their classrooms last year, and both quit teaching afterward. >>> I >>> had students say some shocking and horrible things to me when I first >>> started but I just laughed it off. Once the kids realized that I wasn't >>> going to get all emotional and lose my cool, they started to respect me >>> and by the end of the school year they had come to like me. >>> >>> My point is that you shouldn't let yourself get too emotional about your >>> gear or about what people say on the internet. Leica is not a member of >>> your family, it is not a friend, and it is not God. It is a business, >>> and >>> like all businesses, it exists to make money, not to care about you or >>> your photography. >>> >>> -- >>> Chris Crawford >>> Fine Art Photography >>> Fort Wayne, Indiana >>> 260-437-8990 >>> >>> http://www.chriscrawfordphoto.com My portfolio >>> >>> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Christopher-Crawford/48229272798 >>> Become a fan on Facebook >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 7/2/13 1:46 PM, "Tina Manley" <images at comporium.net> wrote: >>> >>>> Thank you, Lluis. Your opinion means a lot to me. Being "just" a woman. >>>> when I get emotional or angry, I cry. It's hard to explain to Tom why I >>>> have been sitting at the computer all morning crying. I wrote the >>> history >>>> of my business to justify to myself and to him that I don't need to >>>> excuses >>>> or justifications or explanations ;-) ! I'm going to spend the >>> afternoon >>>> wallpapering and dancing! >>>> >>>> Tina >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Lluis Ripoll >>>> <lluisripollquerol at gmail.com>wrote: >>>> >>>>> TINA, >>>>> >>>>> I had no time to follow the discussion, and neither I wan't continue >>> on >>>>> it, I have other things where I want employ my time. Just read few >>> from >>>>> Ted >>>>> and you now and I would like just to add two cents. You Tina, you >>> don't >>>>> need explain neither justify your work, we know it, and I say once >>> more >>>>> congratulations for this. It is not your fault if you have make >>>>> business, >>>>> this is the target many of us wanted, it is not your fault if Leica >>> is >>>>> maybe the best camera system ever made, everyone can do his own >>> choice, >>>>> it >>>>> is not your fault if you have bought or not bought any lens in the >>>>> latest >>>>> years, you don't need justify anything, just continue showing and >>>>> letting >>>>> us continue enjoy your work. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for all of this, you have been very kind telling us all >>> these >>>>> things >>>>> >>>>> Saludos desde Barcelona! >>>>> Lluis >>>>> >>>>> El 02/07/2013, a las 17:38, Tina Manley escribi?: >>>>> >>>>>> LEICA USERS GROUP - >>>>>> >>>>>> I have been a professional photographer since I incorporated my >>>>> business >>>>> in >>>>>> 1980. I have worked really hard to make my business self-supporting >>>>> and >>>>> it >>>>>> is. I worked for many years as a teacher until my photography >>>>> business >>>>>> began to bring in more money than teaching. I bought my first Leica >>>>> M6 >>>>> in >>>>>> 1989 because my old Minolta SRT101 would not hold up to the extreme >>>>>> conditions of my trips throughout the developing world, where most >>> of >>>>> my >>>>>> assignments were. I have used Leica M6, M4, M3, M2, M7, M8, M9 and >>> MM >>>>>> cameras. I have Leica M lenses from the 21 to the 135. All of my >>>>> Leica >>>>>> lenses are old. I have not bought a Leica M lens in many years. All >>>>> of >>>>> my >>>>>> Leica cameras were bought and paid for with money from my business. >>>>> As >>>>>> digital cameras have improved, I have upgraded my Leica cameras. >>> If I >>>>> had >>>>>> not had to switch to digital for business reasons, I would still be >>>>> using >>>>>> my Leica film cameras. None of my purchases were made for emotional >>>>>> reasons. Leicas perform for me. I would not use them if they did >>>>> not. >>>>> I >>>>>> have never had a Leica camera fail that Leica did not repair >>> quickly, >>>>>> sending me lenders overnight. I am sorry that the cameras are so >>>>> expensive >>>>>> but I do believe you get what you pay for. In my experience, Leicas >>>>> are >>>>>> worth what I pay for them. I have never used a Fuji camera or an >>>>> Olympus. >>>>>> I'm sure they are wonderful. I hated the Canons I used when I first >>>>>> switched to digital. At this stage of my life, I am not interested >>> in >>>>>> switching systems. I am not interested in using medium format >>> cameras >>>>> and >>>>>> cannot imagine carrying one to some of the places I travel. Leicas >>>>> happen >>>>>> to be the perfect cameras for me and my work. That's why I'm on a >>>>> Leica >>>>>> Users Group. If you hate Leicas, perhaps you should be on another >>>>> group! >>>>>> >>>>>> Tina >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Tina Manley >>>>>> http://tina-manley.artistwebsites.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>> information >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tina Manley >>>> http://tina-manley.artistwebsites.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information