Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2013/05/25
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Steve - I agree with this completely. Sensor size is only relevant to the size of print you want to make, the noise you can live with, and the dynamic range you need. For much, maybe most of what I do, micro-4/3rds is just fine even though I'm shooting mostly with a X Pro-1 these days. I still think Leica missed the boat by not bringing out a very high quality micro-4/3rds camera system. It would have been following in the great tradition of the company. There may be some movement in the press towards trying smaller sensor sizes. This year at the Boston Symphony concerts, the photographer covering them for the Boston Globe has switched from a big DSLR in a even larger wooden blimp to what looks to me to be a Panasonic GX-1 with a long zoom and no blimp. It will be interesting to see if he returns with it next year. Dick On May 25, 2013, at 2:48 PM, Steve Barbour wrote: > > On May 25, 2013, at 10:01 AM, Richard Taylor <r.s.taylor at comcast.net> > wrote: > >> Well, as others have said, it's hard to imagine Leica competing with >> themselves so FF is not a starter, I think. Fuji and others have shown >> what can be done with APS-C so if the build and image quality with M >> lenses were high, I might go for that price. > > Remember Dick that there is nothing sacred about going to "full frame" > except (other things being equal) that bigger is better (sorta like film). > So why stop at full frame ? When you get to full frame, you will still > want a bigger sensor, and as the Sony RX1 has shown you can put a full > frame sensor in a small camera body. And so it goes endlessly, unless at > some point you say, I like my images just the way they are. > > > Steve >> >> >> >> Dick >> >> >> >> On May 25, 2013, at 12:23 PM, grduprey at mchsi.com wrote: >> >>> $3.5 K would not be acceptable for a APS-C camera, a FF camera would be >>> another thing all together. >>> >>> Gene >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Richard Taylor" <r.s.taylor at comcast.net> >>> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug at leica-users.org> >>> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 11:00:36 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central >>> Subject: Re: [Leica] PESO: RG Lewis and Leica M frustrations >>> >>> I think Steve has it right. Unless the Mini proves to be a useable >>> camera at an acceptable price, Leica will have truly and finally >>> abandoned those of us looking for a practical tool in favor of the >>> gifters and collectors. >>> >>> Useable to my mind means that the camera has at least an APS-C sensor, a >>> built-in EVF of a quality like that in the XE-1, and microlenses on the >>> sensor to let us use M lenses with excellent image quality with or >>> without an adapter. The anticipated price of about $3.5K would be in >>> the acceptable range for me if the camera met the other criteria. >>> >>> Dick >>> >>> >>> >>> On May 25, 2013, at 11:05 AM, Steve Barbour wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On May 25, 2013, at 7:21 AM, Geoff Hopkinson <hopsternew at gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I don't know if this translates well. In Australia we call this the " >>>>> tall >>>>> poppy syndrome". Some people enjoy taking swipes at anyone successful. >>>>> Good >>>>> on them. Of course it is in our interest too that Leica Camera does >>>>> well. >>>>> They make products that some of us value a lot for the photographs >>>>> that we >>>>> can make with them and for the experience of using those products to >>>>> achieve that, They can sell as much as they want to anyone that may >>>>> value >>>>> their products for whatever reason they wish. Why would you care if you >>>>> value Leica for the photographs you can make? >>>> >>>> If at this time virtually all of the product is going to people who >>>> don't make photographs, you can bet that I/we should care about it. Of >>>> course it is impacting our ability to make photos right now. But I >>>> don't think that you have answered my question. The short run is >>>> already surely impacted as I have just noted. I was asking about the >>>> longer run. What does this model predict in terms of future optical >>>> quality? >>>> >>>> I am now using a wonderful 1950's Leica Summicron 50/2 on a Fujifilm >>>> XE-1 body, with a better experience and with better results than with >>>> the latest Leica glass on my M9. Leica quality clearly is already >>>> compromised, and their plan to sell expensive gear to non users means >>>> that they are not currently giving priority to the practical needs of >>>> professionals and discriminating users. >>>> >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Breathe in, breathe out, move on* -- Jimmy Buffett >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Geoff >>>>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 26 May 2013 00:04, Steve Barbour <steve.barbour at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On May 25, 2013, at 6:55 AM, Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at >>>>>> gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Nathan, >>>>>>> It has taken you a very long time to realize and accept this. I was >>>>>>> sure >>>>>> of >>>>>>> the strategic shift in marketing with the M8 itself - it was so >>>>>>> obvious - >>>>>>> the marketing, the choice of magazines for advertisements, the >>>>>> positioning, >>>>>>> the advertorials, etc. With Blackstone's entrance, it was doubly >>>>>>> obvious, >>>>>>> especially when the ostensible reason for the investment was to >>>>>>> spread >>>>>> the >>>>>>> Leica Boutiques, not develop new products. IMHO, it is great for >>>>>>> them, >>>>>>> because as in all MOJO businesses, the margins are obscene, and as >>>>>>> Joseph >>>>>>> points out, there are enough people in the emerging world to pay for >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> bulk of the production (not only the M series but the S series as >>>>>>> well). >>>>>> It >>>>>>> is not dissimilar to what the Bordeaux market has gone through in the >>>>>> last >>>>>>> few years, and what the Burgundy market is going through now - >>>>>>> though I >>>>>>> believe that over 50% of the bottles sold in China are fakes, >>>>>>> because as >>>>>> in >>>>>>> all such markets, the labels matter (Mojo), not the intrinsic >>>>>>> quality. It >>>>>>> will be interesting to see what will happen to Leica as growth in >>>>>>> China >>>>>>> keeps slowing down, as is bound to happen. Remember, this will shaft >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> Russian market as well, because energy prices would nosedive. As >>>>>>> far as >>>>>> I >>>>>>> can see, they have alienated most of their traditional clientele, >>>>>>> bar a >>>>>>> few, and I wonder where they would go to make up the volumes. They >>>>>>> just >>>>>> do >>>>>>> not have a diversified enough customer base to withstand a big >>>>>>> topline >>>>>> hit. >>>>>>> It is going to be interesting. The best thing for all of us would be >>>>>>> if >>>>>> all >>>>>>> those unused Leicas in China come on the used market at the same >>>>>>> time, as >>>>>>> herd behaviour takes hold, and cause a glut there. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would look to a Leica IPO for Blackstone and Kaufmann to cash out >>>>>> sooner >>>>>>> rather than later, if growth in China keeps drifting down. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Jayanand, >>>>>> >>>>>> jewelry for rich clients who don't use it, or who use it with minimal >>>>>> knowledge of its qualities and capabilities, makes the future sound >>>>>> rather >>>>>> ominous. >>>>>> >>>>>> What does this model predict in terms of future optical quality? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Steve >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>> Jayanand >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Nathan Wajsman <photo at >>>>>>> frozenlight.eu >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Right. So Leica has made a strategic shift from the photography >>>>>>>> business >>>>>>>> to the jewelry business. Fair enough, the Blackstone people >>>>>>>> obviously >>>>>> know >>>>>>>> where the money is. But then they should be up front about it so >>>>>>>> that >>>>>> the >>>>>>>> photography dealers can switch their focus to companies that >>>>>>>> actually >>>>>> are >>>>>>>> interested in supplying photographers. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>> Nathan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Nathan Wajsman >>>>>>>> Alicante, Spain >>>>>>>> http://www.frozenlight.eu >>>>>>>> http://www.greatpix.eu >>>>>>>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws >>>>>>>> Blog: http://nathansmusings.wordpress.com/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> YNWA >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On May 25, 2013, at 2:28 PM, Joseph Yao wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Leica have been shipping sufficient quantities of the new M240. >>>>>>>>> They >>>>>> may >>>>>>>>> not have been sending them to their 'traditional' markets where >>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>> profit >>>>>>>>> margins are lower. You will see plenty of M240 in, for example, >>>>>> Beijing >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> Shanghai, where the going rate for one is US$12,000 to US$13,000. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> A handful of limited production silver chrome MM have been made >>>>>>>>> for the >>>>>>>>> Chinese market, and available at RMB 1,581,000 each, approx. >>>>>> US$258,280. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Joseph >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information