Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2013/01/20

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Subject: [Leica] Cold War Space Radars - UFOs?
From: jhnichols at lighttube.net (Jim Nichols)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 12:02:51 -0600
References: <67B24A6E-51E8-42C5-81D1-39BD87F0B007@acm.org><DD27B927-1F94-4007-BECB-1FA60F7CA23D@bex.net><CAE3QcF4s7To3bM3x4jOWtApgqFZMq4jMxExdbUVMtkRNRbEOMw@mail.gmail.com><50FA9681.3080104@gmx.de><02995148-152C-43CE-A032-48EBD017A28B@bex.net><F1E76E0E7537455CABD0DFB7CB0CB9A2@Family><EF061C4D-68DF-4CA5-809B-7683E9DBF3F7@bex.net><50FBEE53.8030308@gmx.de><4F36F120-593E-4483-B355-DE0B54091674@bex.net><50FC1E25.80306@gmx.de><02274F145AB444B0BD42608ABE3356D5@jimnichols> <50FC2DE3.7090507@gmx.de>

Hi Douglas,

No, it was not Cisco.  I seem to recall it was SAI, a Huntsville, Alabama 
firm that had several defense department contracts.

Jim Nichols
Tullahoma, TN USA
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Douglas Sharp" <douglas.sharp at gmx.de>
To: "Leica Users Group" <lug at leica-users.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Leica] Cold War Space Radars - UFOs?


> Hi Jim,
>
> Cisco Systems? Or is it another secret?
>
> Douglas
>
>
> On 20.01.2013 17:50, Jim Nichols wrote:
>> Hi Douglas and Howard,
>>
>> Looks as if many of us have a connection there. My oldest son, a computer 
>> systems analyst, spent some time there for his employer, in the early 
>> 1980s.
>>
>> Jim Nichols
>> Tullahoma, TN USA
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Sharp" <douglas.sharp at 
>> gmx.de>
>> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug at leica-users.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 10:41 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Cold War Space Radars - UFOs?
>>
>>
>>> Howard,
>>>
>>> I have actually walked past it at night - outside the perimeter fence. 
>>> It's on the route of the old corpse way, which has been a long-distance 
>>> walk for many years - The Lyke Wake Walk - a competitive and very tough 
>>> walk that has to be finished within 24 hours. There used to be a little 
>>> badge in the form of a coffin for everyone who completed it. It 
>>> certainly looked eerie looming out of the mist in the twilight.
>>>
>>> The spookiest things along the walk are stumbling over a sheep in pitch 
>>> darkness, or the loud squawks when you blunder into a nest of grouse!
>>> That said, I would never have thought of walking it alone.
>>>
>>> There have been cases of walkers inadvertently trespassing on the site, 
>>> being arrested by RAF police with big dogs (now patrolled by a private 
>>> security force), having been questioned, "invited" to sign the Official 
>>> Secrets Act, and then being dropped off at the main gate after an 
>>> excellent breakfast. (not exactly reaction with "extreme prejudice)
>>>
>>> One story even involves a bus full of pensioners that got lost in the 
>>> fog and ended up between the golfballs - probably as believable as 
>>> UFO-sightings.:-)
>>>
>>> Apparently, the new pyramid has 360? radar that covers everything (still 
>>> including Russia, but now also the Middle East and N. Africa), but 
>>> concentrates mainly on locating orbiting junk.
>>>
>>> Interesting is that the base is not marked on the Ordnance Survey maps 
>>> of the UK (at least not on the 1977 issue). But is very clearly marked 
>>> on Russian maps of the same period.
>>>
>>> As far as I know, the most important "spy" site in the area is Menwith 
>>> Hill, the "Ear to the Sky" which, according to local hearsay, monitors 
>>> international phone, e-mail and Internet traffic - purportedly for the 
>>> NSA - is a part of the ECHELON System, and may even be involved in the 
>>> control of drone attacks.
>>>
>>> But, as ever, all you have to do is put a high fence around it, put up 
>>> unambiguous signs and post armed guards, and you already have the next 
>>> conspiracy theory.:-)
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Douglas
>>>
>>>
>>> On 20.01.2013 15:53, Howard Ritter wrote:
>>>> Douglas?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the interesting information about the Yorkshire moors. Must 
>>>> have been spooky to work at at Fylingdales?especially at night!
>>>>
>>>> Actually, there was nothing particularly secret about these 
>>>> installations. They were just radar stations using technology developed 
>>>> in the 1950s and '60s. They sent their data to a central facility 
>>>> called the CC&DF inside Cheyenne Mountain south of Colorado Springs 
>>>> (which was my last duty station in this system, before I changed gears 
>>>> by going to medical school). Now, the newer installation you mentioned 
>>>> sounds like a phased-array radar, which steers the beam electronically 
>>>> and can generated multiple beams simultaneously; there's maybe some 
>>>> classified technology there.
>>>>
>>>> The more nuanced answer to your question about unidentified objects is 
>>>> that we would not likely have recognized one if we'd seen it! The 
>>>> system's mission was to look for space objects with ballistic (i.e., 
>>>> free-fall) trajectories that were either a closed orbit (satellite) or 
>>>> one that intersected the surface of the Earth (as an ICBM warhead would 
>>>> do). Objects with none of these conditions were ignored, and in any 
>>>> case only data relating to position, velocity, and intensity of the 
>>>> radar reflection were generated; a radar doesn't produce an image. 
>>>> Moreover, the radar was programmed to ignore anything closer to it than 
>>>> a satellite in low Earth orbit, say 90 miles or so. Alien spacecraft 
>>>> traveling under power in the atmosphere would be ignored by the 
>>>> computer as being aircraft and/or too close to be a threat object, and 
>>>> one traveling under power in near-Earth space would be ignored as not 
>>>> being ballistic. Such a thing would have shown up on-screen (as a 
>>>> computer-generated blip, not an image), but the data would have been 
>>>> discarded as being irrelevant. An alien craft actually on orbit, like a 
>>>> satellite, and generating a strong reflection, WOULD generate data that 
>>>> would be saved and sent to the CC&DF for analysis, and would lead to 
>>>> the generation of a new-satellite file. Such an unexpected finding 
>>>> would have prompted an extreme-priority designation that would have 
>>>> tasked the sites to gather maximum data on it every pass. When it moved 
>>>> on, out of orbit, disappearing suddenly without "decaying" due to 
>>>> atmospheric friction, this would have generated extreme consternation. 
>>>> I never heard of any such object. Even new Soviet satellites were known 
>>>> about virtually as soon as they were launched, and nothing I was aware 
>>>> of generated the level of intense interest that the sudden appearance 
>>>> of a sizable, previously unknown object in orbit would have. Of course, 
>>>> there are lots of bits of space junk originating from exploding fuel 
>>>> tanks, the occasional collision, etc., many thereby driven into new 
>>>> orbits, and so small as to be marginally or irregularly detectable, 
>>>> that are monitored without their origin ever being identified.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, such aliens would presumably be highly capable of evading 
>>>> detection if they wanted to. They could simply stay out of sight of 
>>>> radars that could detect them as unidentified orbiting objects. Or if 
>>>> an alien ship used technology that gave it a low radar cross-section, 
>>>> and were on an orbit that had characteristics typical of satellites and 
>>>> the rocket bodies used to launch space probes, it presumably would not 
>>>> occasion anything other than routine interest, nor would its appearance 
>>>> or disappearance be thought mysterious.
>>>>
>>>> I kept constantly hoping, though!
>>>>
>>>> ?howard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 20, 2013, at 8:17 AM, Douglas Sharp <douglas.sharp at gmx.de> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Of course not - that's why there are thousands of entries when you 
>>>>> google on Fylingdales and UFO.:-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Even sightings of mysterious, panther-sized black cats, a UFO crash, 
>>>>> lights in the sky and everything else that seems to hang around secret 
>>>>> military facilities. (if it's so secret, why is it so clearly visible 
>>>>> in one of the most exposed areas of Yorkshire?);-)
>>>>>
>>>>> The site is built on a medieval corpse way, and the moors were always 
>>>>> full of will of the wisps, corpse candles, boggits, trolls and other 
>>>>> things that jump out and scare unsuspecting travellers - and the giant 
>>>>> Horcum lived not far away, he left a big hole in the ground by 
>>>>> throwing rocks at a rival (It's actually the end of a glacial lake, 
>>>>> but that's not half as spooky).
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> Douglas
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 19.01.2013 20:53, Howard Ritter wrote:
>>>>>> Why, none?of course! ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ?howard
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 19, 2013, at 2:05 PM, Douglas Barry <imra at iol.ie> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fascinating stuff, Howard, but, of course, we all want to know about 
>>>>>>> the inexplicable, or how many likely extra-terrestrial spacecraft 
>>>>>>> turned up?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Douglas
>>>>>>> _________
>>>>>>> Douglas Barry
>>>>>>> Bray, Co. Wicklow
>>>>>>> Republic of Ireland
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
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>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
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In reply to: Message from kanner at acm.org (Herbert Kanner) ([Leica] Another in the Computer History Museum series)
Message from hlritter at bex.net (Howard Ritter) ([Leica] Cold War Space Radars)
Message from hopsternew at gmail.com (Geoff Hopkinson) ([Leica] Cold War Space Radars)
Message from douglas.sharp at gmx.de (Douglas Sharp) ([Leica] Cold War Space Radars)
Message from hlritter at bex.net (Howard Ritter) ([Leica] Cold War Space Radars)
Message from imra at iol.ie (Douglas Barry) ([Leica] Cold War Space Radars)
Message from hlritter at bex.net (Howard Ritter) ([Leica] Cold War Space Radars)
Message from douglas.sharp at gmx.de (Douglas Sharp) ([Leica] Cold War Space Radars - UFOs?)
Message from hlritter at bex.net (Howard Ritter) ([Leica] Cold War Space Radars - UFOs?)
Message from douglas.sharp at gmx.de (Douglas Sharp) ([Leica] Cold War Space Radars - UFOs?)
Message from jhnichols at lighttube.net (Jim Nichols) ([Leica] Cold War Space Radars - UFOs?)
Message from douglas.sharp at gmx.de (Douglas Sharp) ([Leica] Cold War Space Radars - UFOs?)