[Leica] OT Gun Violence

[jon.streeter at cox.net (jon.streeter)]

Some very sensible ideas.  

This is an issue that will never be settled.  

The biggest threat to the lives of people the world over and throughout 
history has been and remains their own governments.   Governments are 
composed of people.  Nothing guarantees those people will comport themselves 
nobly and in the best interests of the people over whom they inevitably hold 
power.

Tyrants cannot remain in power over an armed citizenry.  All tyrannies and 
genocides and democides (death by government, cf Prof. Rummel) have begun by 
disarming the citizenry.  All disarming of the citizenry has begun with 
regulation, which is to say, gun control.  

Regulation generally begins with registration and usually involves taxes and 
licenses and rules on who gets to own what.  In the US it began with bans on 
gun ownership by freed slaves.  

Typical approaches to gun control can seem quite reasonable:  restrictions 
or bans on only certain kinds of weapons (such as large-caliber or 
high-capacity or inexpensive or very expensive or military-in-appearance or 
very large or very small) in a divide-and conquer strategy.

In the 20th century, governments murdered six times as many of their own 
citizens (or subjects) as were killed in all the wars in that century.  All 
of these democides began with gun confiscation which began with gun control.

Of course, that can't happen "here."
England confiscated most firearms a few years ago.  Crime and gun crime have 
risen.  A UN report stated that England is now the most likely place in 
Western Europe to get mugged.

Typically the "debate" is characterized by much heat and little light.  John 
Lott, Harvard economist, has written a densely technical book regarding his 
study of every county in the US for a period, initially, of 18 years, "More 
Guns, Less Crime," in which he claims to show that violent crime rates fall 
when citizens are permitted by local laws to carry concealed weapons.  The 
response by the opposition, for example, Alan Dershowitz, has been simply to 
call his entire study "junk science." 

As I say, this issue will never be settled.  Governments everywhere will 
continue to expand gun control. Gun control advocates are now hard at work 
crafting a worldwide ban on gun ownership by private citizens ti be put into 
effect by a treaty which, it's claimed, will supercede the US Constitution. 

The tragedy in the school shooting took about twenty lives.  In the 20th 
century, governments took over 270 million lives, lives of their own 
citizens whom they had first disarmed.  

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone

----- Reply message -----
From: "Mark Kronquist" <mak at teleport.com>
To: "Leica Users Group" <lug at leica-users.org>
Subject: [Leica] OT Gun Violence
Date: Fri, Dec 14, 2012 8:43 pm


Gun violence. Time for some sensible legislation

Many of you know my day job, some don't. I am "in the industry" as a Vice 
President for the largest manufacturer of firearms in the region. Our 
products are far more tightly controlled and not likely to be involved in 
one of these incidents. 

First, my heart goes out to the victims of these senseless tragedies.

I realize that the AR-15 platform used in Oregon was stolen and the 
Bushmaster used in CT was illegal in CT. Not sure about CT handgun laws and 
whether the Glock and Sig P226 were CT legal or not. Nor do I know if the 
weapons were stolen, purchased legally before the 1994 ban or whatnot. These 
are minor issues. Criminals will break the law.

We cannot be Pollyanna's and magically make guns or the Second Amendment 
disappear. Face it guns are a part of our society...like it or not. Will 
these few ideas end gun crime? No. If a criminal or an mentally ill person 
is going to use a gun to commit a crime, they will find a gun...just maybe 
these ideas will make it a bit harder and discourage the opportunist.

1. What we can do is get rid of the crazy patchwork of gun laws that ban a 
gun in one county or city or state or the purchase of that gun...for example,
the Gifford's shooter in Arizona could not have legally purchased the gun 
used int he killings in say, a far left, liberal state called 
oh...Idaho...or at least three dozen other states. Why can a mentally ill 
(sorry to offend those who don't like labels but call it otheradvantaged, 
challenged or whatever the shooter was not of right mind) purchase a hand 
gun in Arizona and not in Idaho? Why not have ONE NATIONAL STANDARD FOR 
RIFLES? HANDGUNS? CONCEALED CARRY? States rights folks will be up in arms 
but, I think the 2nd Amendment makes this a Federal issue, not a state 
one...we did it at the FEDERAL LEVEL with the 1934 act banning machine guns 
and the 1968 act banning Saturday Night Specials.

2. I just got home from a long day and opened a beer. We pay a social 
welfare tax on beer. We pay a social welfare tax on cigarettes. We pay a 
social welfare tax on lottery tickets. On chewing tobacco on candy in some 
places. Right now any 18 year old can walk into any BiMart, Fred Meyer, 
K-Mart, WalMart or wherever and lay down 15-16 bucks for 500 rounds of .22 
ammo. Yes I know that .22 is not often used in mass murders and that there 
is a 15% excise tax on new ammo but this tax goes to the general fund, not 
to offsetting the toll caused by gun violence in our society. So I grant 
those arguments and ask is a penny or a nickel a round for rifle ammo going 
to hurt hunters that badly? Heck double it and put the other half to hunting 
habitat restoration through Rocky Mountain Elk or Ducks Unlimited.

3. Scary guns and pretty guns are just as deadly in the wrong hands. My 
French 49-56 MAS Battle Rifle holds only 10 rounds per clip and has a 
beautiful, wood stock and lacks a pistol grip, muzzle compensator or other 
cosmetics that were banned in the US from 1994-2004. Yet in the wrong hands 
it is far more deadly than a .223/5.56 (the most common M-16 AR-15 platform 
round)...and the MAS makes it easy as easy to change a magazine in about 2 
seconds...unclip, drop, clip, rerack shoot. Capacity limits are do-good 
fiction. 10 rounds (the 1994-2004 maximum) are just as deadly as 30 and 
changing any mag takes just a second or two...in a mall or school filled 
with innocents it's not going to matter.

4. Driver's license. Motorcycle License. Food Server's Food Handling Permit, 
Alcohol Server's License. On and on and on. Gun. Walk in to a gun shop slap 
down ten bucks for a basic background check and we give you the keys to an 
Indy Car...Yes a Libertarians' nightmare. Why not REQUIRE a national 
standard handgun safety class to buy a handgun (pass the class once, you 
receive a license as counterfeit proof as currency (will a criminal copy it? 
Sure. Will a 15 year old gang banger (again sorry to offend) No.) Why not a 
hunting safety class for a rifle purchase and a national class and standard 
for concealed carry as well...and, yes, please NRA, you guys are great at 
gun safety, please teach and profit from the classes. 

My 2 cents.

I am sure many disagree. Disagree with dignity and finesse. We all have 
opinions...please share yours. 

Thank you

Mark





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