Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/10/17

[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]

Subject: [Leica] OT: large format lens vs. medium format lens
From: mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 11:57:23 -0400

There's also just putting the lens on the camera and using it. I do think
the odds of something being wrong with it are slimmer than god.
When I got set up for 4x5 in 1989 I got a  Calumet Cambo 45NX 4x5 from
Calumet and tried to get a Nikkor W 210mm f/5.6 which a few people I knew,
photographers, used. They were out and also on the facing page in the
Calumet Catalog were the Nikons at first cheaper than exactly the same
price. So I got a W 210mm f5.6 lens Fujinon instead. It was $490.00 was
would be the Nikkor.
I never tested it. I just used it. Pretty much the same technique any
photographer I ever met would take.
Buy the lens; use it.
if I picture comes out a little weird trust me its YOU that messed up not
the lens.

Mark William Rabiner
Photography
http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/


> From: "Henning J. Wulff" <henningw at archiphoto.com>
> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 01:12:40 -0700
> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Subject: Re: [Leica] OT: large format lens vs. medium format lens
> 
> Sorry, Richard, I saw the earlier post on the Nikkor and that stuck. The 
> Fuji
> f/4.5 is just about the same as the Nikkor f/4.5; both are older designs 
> from
> the early 70's similar to the Grandagon and the SA 90/5.6. Not all that 
> good
> until f/16, and then they have very good and even performance.
> 
> As far as checking, you have to find someone who has a good optical bench 
> and
> knows what he's doing. There was someone here in Vancouver until the late 
> 90's
> who did that for me, but I don't know anyone who does that now.
> 
> Do you have a 4x5 camera or a camera with a good 6x6 or 6x7 back you can 
> check
> this lens on? Those would be better than a 6x17 back. The film flatness
> problem with 6x17 is quite severe, from what I've heard. For a number of
> Photokinas we stayed at the same hotel as Ken Canham, and he was trying,
> reasonably successfully, to make the first 'flatter' 6x17 back. Not having
> tried any, I had to take his word for it. I'm not sure Shenhao got it 
> right;
> Ken didn't think so.
> 
> Henning
> 
> 
> 
> On 2012-10-17, at 12:17 AM, Richard Man wrote:
> 
>> Henning, as I amended, it's a Fuji SWD and not a Nikkor.
>> 
>> So how do I check if the spacing is correct? This pages talks about lens
>> mounting a bit, but no method on checking:
>> 
>> http://lensn2shutter.com/lensmounting.html
>> 
>> Again, more (rigorous) tests tomorrow.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 12:04 AM, Henning Wulff
>> <henningw at archiphoto.com>wrote:
>> 
>>> While the 617 holders have more problems with film flatness, the lens 
>>> does
>>> come into play as well. Which Nikkor 90 is it; the f/8 or the f/4.5? The
>>> f/8 is a little sharper in my experience at f/11. While quite decent, 
>>> they
>>> are not quite up to the standard of the newer lenses like the SA-XL line 
>>> or
>>> especially the Super-Symmar XL. In practice this is extremely hard to see
>>> if you are shooting at f/16 and smaller. I have some SA-XL lenses and the
>>> 47 is actually a little sharper than the T* Biogon in my SWC as is my 35
>>> Apo-Grandagon at f/8. At f/4.5 the Biogon is sharper overall, and at f/11
>>> you can't tell the difference. In practice, the SWC usually produces
>>> sharper pictures because my best roll film back (6x7) doesn't hold film 
>>> as
>>> flat as the Hasselblad backs. But the 47 covers 4x5, and the 35 covers 
>>> 6x12.
>>> 
>>> Also, make sure the 90 Nikkor is mounted correctly. About half the LF
>>> lenses I have were mounted with incorrect spacing between the front and
>>> back cells. All lenses I obtained through Sinar or that were originally
>>> sold by Sinar or Linhof were mounted correctly; my Nikkors from Nikon in
>>> Copal shutters (3) were all mounted out of tolerance and had improved
>>> performance after adjustment.
>>> 
>>> Henning
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 2012-10-16, at 10:36 PM, Richard Man wrote:
>>> 
>>>> The Shenhao 617 holder. There have been talk about 617 holders (not just
>>>> Shenhao's) do not keep the film flat enough :-(
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 10:22 PM, Frank Filippone <red735i at 
>>>> verizon.net
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> the lens will cover the format.........and it is pretty modern, so it
>>>>> should
>>>>> be pretty sharp.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The image circle of the 90 Nikkor SWD is 238mm.
>>>>> The 6x17 format has a diagonal of 180mm.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Back to the questions about film flatness.... and "floppiness" in the
>>>>> camera...  The SWC is exceptional in this regard.....
>>>>> 
>>>>> What film "holder" are you using?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Frank Filippone
>>>>> Red735i at verizon.net
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: lug-bounces+red735i=verizon.net at leica-users.org
>>>>> [mailto:lug-bounces+red735i=verizon.net at leica-users.org] On Behalf 
>>>>> Of
>>>>> Richard Man
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 10:08 PM
>>>>> To: Leica Users Group
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] OT: large format lens vs. medium format lens
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mainly the Nikkor 90mm SWD, but I think the other lens are similar...
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 10:02 PM, Frank Filippone
>>>>> <red735i at verizon.net>wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Film flatness plays its part....
>>>>>> Your lens is trying to project an image circle equivalent to a 5x7
>>>>>> negative area....not an easy task....
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> What lens are you using?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Frank Filippone
>>>>>> Red735i at verizon.net
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Always been my understanding of it, not the same enlargement so not
>>>>>> the same lens resolving. Newer LF lenses are much better than most old
>>>>>> ones though....
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> john
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> As Iwas formulating the question, it sounds like the answer IS
>>>>>> obvious, but just want to confirm.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I am testing the Shenhao 617 and it could be my focusing techniques
>>>>>> and other issues, but it appears to me that the images are not as
>>>>>> sharp on the same film as images made by, well, the Hassy SWC.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Yes, I am expecting someone to jump in and say of course the SWC is
>>>>>> razor sharp because it's the legendary Biogon etc., but I am now
>>>>>> thinking that this generally will be the case, as the large format
>>>>>> lens are designed to cover large negative (and the smallest 4x5 dwarfs
>>>>>> the 617) so they do not generally have the resolution and sharpness
>>>>>> that a good medium format lens has.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Is this correct?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> // richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> // richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com>
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> // richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com>
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> // richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com>
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
> 
> 
> Henning Wulff
> henningw at archiphoto.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information




Replies: Reply from frank.dernie at btinternet.com (FRANK DERNIE) ([Leica] OT: large format lens vs. medium format lens)
Reply from red735i at verizon.net (Frank Filippone) ([Leica] OT: large format lens vs. medium format lens)
Reply from vick.ko at sympatico.ca (Vick Ko) ([Leica] OT: large format lens vs. medium format lens)
In reply to: Message from henningw at archiphoto.com (Henning Wulff) ([Leica] OT: large format lens vs. medium format lens)