Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/10/05

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Subject: [Leica] Software correection of abberations on MFT systems
From: alal at poly.edu (A. Lal)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 07:04:01 -0400
References: <B48C4AE65ECF42FDB5ACDDA670CA7570@qck8vqhgou8blu><E46C114E-E48C-4F77-95D6-7ED58060B273@archiphoto.com><E175118D021B43FD8CD0FA91183E9A11@qck8vqhgou8blu> <30A3A4E0-D807-4B62-9302-1735DE407457@archiphoto.com>

We're going to have to disagree on this point.  Unless we actually know the 
glass content of these lenses, which I certainly do not, any discussion will 
speculative.

In any case a fairer comparison for a Canon full frame L series lens would 
be one of the old pro- grade Olympus 4/3 (not MFT) lenses.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Henning Wulff" <henningw at archiphoto.com>
To: "Leica Users Group" <lug at leica-users.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Leica] Software correection of abberations on MFT systems


> With most lenses, raw material costs will truly be minor unless very 
> special glasses are used as in the f/1 Noctilux. Most glass is relatively 
> cheap when you consider the amounts used. Other raw materials are a few 
> dollars. Costs are due to design, manufacturing and especially testing and 
> QC. Comparing a 24-70/2.8 for full frame and the 12-35/2.8 for m43, I 
> doubt that raw material costs differ by more than 10 or 20 dollars. That 
> difference gets magnified by an order of magnitude at list price, but is 
> still a minor part.
>
> Henning
>
>
> On 2012-09-26, at 10:36 AM, A. Lal wrote:
>
>> It is good to know that distortions is corrected across makes, but not 
>> CA. This was news to me, as you might have gathered from my post.  We 
>> shall have to wait and see about 3rd party lenses.
>>
>> As for cost, a smaller format lens, ought to be cheaper, all else being 
>> equal, simply because raw materials costs are lower to start with.  A 
>> price of 50% of  an equivalent full frame 35mm sounds in line with 
>> expectations. Of course, the selling price may not be directly related to 
>> cost of manufacture.
>>
>> BTW, I made no comment about DOF.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henning Wulff" 
>> <henningw at archiphoto.com>
>> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug at leica-users.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 12:23 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Software correection of abberations on MFT systems
>>
>>
>>> On Olympus bodies the 12-35 appears to correct for distortion, but not 
>>> CA. Distortion levels are very low and much lower than other 
>>> manufacturer's 24-70/2.8 lenses, for example in the output image. That 
>>> is in line with what Olympus does for its own lenses. Panasonic bodies 
>>> correct for distortion and CA; Olympus bodies do not. The 7-14 Panasonic 
>>> is also corrected for its distortion on the OM-D which would otherwise 
>>> be very noticeable. Olympus lens are corrected for distortion on 
>>> Panasonic bodies, just as on Olympus bodies.
>>>
>>> As for third party lenses, it would depend. Are these lenses AF lenses 
>>> designed for the m43 cameras, or are they non-electronic lenses designed 
>>> for other systems? If the former, possibly corrections are applied in 
>>> line with the maker's lenses; if the latter, no. Since the latter are 
>>> designed without software corrections in mind in the first place, that 
>>> should be no problem.
>>>
>>> The issue with Panasonic lenses not being corrected for CA on Olympus 
>>> bodies is known. However, in general the lens behaves very well and has 
>>> very high image quality. Photozone once again states that 'they are not 
>>> against MFT', but seem to be harsher on m43 lenses with respect to such 
>>> things as distortion than lenses for larger formats. They note the 
>>> 'considerable distortion' of the 12-35 at 1.5% but gloss over the 
>>> distortion of the Nikon and Canon lenses at nearly twice those levels. 
>>> For the new Canon at 2.8% they state: 'The vignetting and distortion 
>>> characteristic is above average for a lens in this class'. Also, they 
>>> state:
>>>
>>> 'While it is, of course, a f/2.8 lens regarding its speed potential, the 
>>> depth-of-field capabilities are actually not quite as impressive. In MFT 
>>> land you are "losing" about 2 f-stops here which obviously reduces the 
>>> creative potential of the lens quite a bit.'
>>>
>>> How did a narrow depth of field become a holy grail?
>>>
>>> That's a rather narrow concept. As anyone who has shot with medium 
>>> format and larger knows, often the 'creative potential' of a greater 
>>> depth of field is what one struggles with. The depth of field is what it 
>>> is. If you want narrow, shoot 11x14. If you want deep, shoot a P&S. All 
>>> have creative potential.
>>>
>>> The high price of the 12-35/2.8 is a factor. But it is half the price of 
>>> the Canon 24-70.
>>>
>>> I read photozone at times. The reviews are informative, but you have to 
>>> pay attention to how they test and what their biases are.
>>>
>>> 'Cheap 'n cheerful' has resulted in a lens that provides similar 
>>> performance for half the price. Doesn't seem like a bad trade-off to me.
>>>
>>> Henning
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2012-09-26, at 8:22 AM, A. Lal wrote:
>>>
>>>> LUgers may recall some months ago I posted to this list a question 
>>>> about using non-makers'  lenses on the micro four thirds system. 
>>>> Specifically, I was interested to know how an Olympus body would handle 
>>>> a Panasonic lens and vice versa.
>>>>
>>>> Well the answer, disappointingly, according to the review of the 
>>>> Panasonic 12-35/2.8 zoom on photozone is that software corrections do 
>>>> not work with non-makers' lenses. While a Panasonic body will correct 
>>>> the 12-35 lens' significant distortions and chromatic aberrations, an 
>>>> Olympus body will not. This leads to the obvious question of how third 
>>>> party lenses will be handled by MFT bodies. Apparently software will be 
>>>> needed to correct for optical defects. The 12-35 Panasonic zoom is 
>>>> pretty poor in terms of distortion and chromatic aberrations and is 
>>>> very likely typical of upper consumer- grade lenses in today's 
>>>> marketplace. Make 'em cheap 'n cheerful to keep margins up, correct in 
>>>> software seems to be the way forward for the big MFT manufacturers.
>>>>
>>>> The review is here:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.photozone.de/m43/766_pana1235f28
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Henning Wulff
>>> henningw at archiphoto.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>
>
> Henning Wulff
> henningw at archiphoto.com
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 



In reply to: Message from alal at poly.edu (A. Lal) ([Leica] Software correection of abberations on MFT systems)
Message from henningw at archiphoto.com (Henning Wulff) ([Leica] Software correection of abberations on MFT systems)
Message from alal at poly.edu (A. Lal) ([Leica] Software correection of abberations on MFT systems)
Message from henningw at archiphoto.com (Henning Wulff) ([Leica] Software correection of abberations on MFT systems)