Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/09/26
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]I believe I read somewhere, the firmware was written by two different sources also, which will also make a difference in how the image is rendered from the camera. Cheers, Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Hopkinson" <hopsternew at gmail.com> To: lug at leica-users.org Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 4:33:02 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [Leica] M8 vs M9 Observations Frank, The DNG raw format has an embedded preview. That preview is very low resolution from the M8 and M9 but is understood by Adobe, who of course invented the format. If you import DNG files (as with other raw files) with the Adobe raw converter (Adobe Camera Raw or Lightroom), it initially uses that for the preview display and later builds new previews in the background according to the preferences that you have set. If you go on to develop the files those changes are also eventually reflected in the previews you see. The DNG standard has been updated along the way. Look at your process versions too. I suggest that you update all files to the latest for best noise reduction performance especially and the *default* colour rendering from the profile is also improved. Certainly LR3 and LR4 and their point variations correctly recognise all variations of DNG produced by M8, M9 and S2, X1,X2 for that matter. The default rendering in the cameras has evolved as well as have the Adobe Profiles for each M. The sensors are not identical in sensitiviity/rendering in any case. There are (red) dye differences for example. What the cameras show you on their LCDs is only an approximation of a default JPG rendering including applied WB as set and not the embedded raw preview exactly. Again the two LCDs are not identical, despite their common appearance. Of course there are many possible variables in how you see and perceive what you are looking at on your screen too. I suggest that you work through your LR preference and settings.. Cheers, Geoff http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman > > From: Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> > To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> > Cc: > Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 22:05:51 -0400 > Subject: Re: [Leica] M8 vs. M9 Observations.... > Yes you can adjust the preferences in the adobe camera raw so there is less > color saturation or maybe even just vividness. That does nothing to the > image itself until you open it. Then you cans save it as a jpeg or whatever > you want. > Or if you adjust things in your camera, most of them which effect how your > jpegs are coming out or previews of raw which are the same thing. > So really there is no such thing as a digital camera which is gives more > saturated color than another. It all depends on how you have it adjusted. > Both the camera and the software which stores and opens your pix. > > Mark William Rabiner > Photography > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ > > > > From: Frank Filippone <red735i at earthlink.net> > > Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> > > Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 18:49:57 -0700 > > To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> > > Subject: [Leica] M8 vs M9 Observations.... > > > > Had an M8 for about 3 years, Got a new to me M9 a few months ago. > > > > > > > > I noted on the M9 that LR found and used an embedded camera specific > image > > profile (in the image file itself, I think). The M8 used one that came > from > > Adobe, but needed to be turned on inside LR and LR never found an > embedded > > profile for the M8. > > > > > > > > The images on the M9 are significantly more saturated and vivid in their > > colors than the M8. ( maybe too saturated?) > > > > > > > > Is this someone else noted and is the way it is or do I have some M9 > > adjustment set wrong? > > > > > > > > Frank Filippone > > > > Red735i at earthlink.net > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: "Frank Filippone" <red735i at earthlink.net> > To: "'Leica Users Group'" <lug at leica-users.org> > Cc: > Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 19:22:30 -0700 > Subject: Re: [Leica] M8 vs. M9 Observations.... > I realize all of that..... but I was curious why the M8 and M9 do not put > out relatively the same, given that Leica set the profiles for both. > > Maybe the question is... If you had an M8 and an M9 with the same lens, and > took a picture with the same factory standard (default) camera and LR > settings, would the images be pretty much identical? Consider saturation > and "vividness" as criteria..... > > Images were captured as dng compressed files. > > Frank Filippone > Red735i at earthlink.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: lug-bounces+red735i=earthlink.net at leica-users.org > [mailto:lug-bounces+red735i=earthlink.net at leica-users.org] On Behalf Of > Mark > Rabiner > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 7:06 PM > To: Leica Users Group > Subject: Re: [Leica] M8 vs. M9 Observations.... > > Yes you can adjust the preferences in the adobe camera raw so there is less > color saturation or maybe even just vividness. That does nothing to the > image itself until you open it. Then you cans save it as a jpeg or whatever > you want. > Or if you adjust things in your camera, most of them which effect how your > jpegs are coming out or previews of raw which are the same thing. > So really there is no such thing as a digital camera which is gives more > saturated color than another. It all depends on how you have it adjusted. > Both the camera and the software which stores and opens your pix. > > Mark William Rabiner > Photography > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ > > > > From: Frank Filippone <red735i at earthlink.net> > > Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> > > Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 18:49:57 -0700 > > To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> > > Subject: [Leica] M8 vs M9 Observations.... > > > > Had an M8 for about 3 years, Got a new to me M9 a few months ago. > > > > > > > > I noted on the M9 that LR found and used an embedded camera specific > > image profile (in the image file itself, I think). The M8 used one > > that came from Adobe, but needed to be turned on inside LR and LR > > never found an embedded profile for the M8. > > > > > > > > The images on the M9 are significantly more saturated and vivid in > > their colors than the M8. ( maybe too saturated?) > > > > > > > > Is this someone else noted and is the way it is or do I have some M9 > > adjustment set wrong? > > > > > > > > Frank Filippone > > > > Red735i at earthlink.net > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Leica Users Group. > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> > To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> > Cc: > Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 22:55:59 -0400 > Subject: Re: [Leica] M8 vs. M9 Observations.... > The reason why its so hard to compare lenses and cameras nowadays is its > really impossible to start them off at the same place. To take out all the > defaults or adjust the defaults to a so called neutral. Even if you were > able to adjust them to match another camera there is firmware inside the > camera you can't adjust but will change from year to year. Then you have in > effect a new camera. The biggest controversy is over color saturation is > sharpness. As you cant just not unsharp mask at all it leaves you will > jelly > (this is where the M8 people claim they don't need to unsharp because of no > anti alias filter and back and forth) > > In a way it doesn't make any difference as not only are you not shooting > slides you're not shooting negatives either when you shoot digital. When > you > click the shutter it is far from the final product though it seems many > wish > it was and pretend that it is. People pretend they're shooting slides as > they can't bare the idea of doing anything. They want the picture to be > their cameras fault. > Any digital file even a jpeg you open it up and decide what it needs and > give it to it its pretty straightforward and does not involve anything > convoluted. You should in most cases end up with exactly what you want. > If its a little over saturated there are several ways to desaturate it to > your liking. In camera or just a bit later. > > Mark William Rabiner > > > > From: Frank Filippone <red735i at earthlink.net> > > Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> > > Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 19:22:30 -0700 > > To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> > > Subject: Re: [Leica] M8 vs. M9 Observations.... > > > > I realize all of that..... but I was curious why the M8 and M9 do not put > > out relatively the same, given that Leica set the profiles for both. > > > > Maybe the question is... If you had an M8 and an M9 with the same lens, > and > > took a picture with the same factory standard (default) camera and LR > > settings, would the images be pretty much identical? Consider saturation > > and "vividness" as criteria..... > > > > Images were captured as dng compressed files. > > > > Frank Filippone > > Red735i at earthlink.net > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: lug-bounces+red735i=earthlink.net at leica-users.org > > [mailto:lug-bounces+red735i=earthlink.net at leica-users.org] On Behalf > > Of > Mark > > Rabiner > > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 7:06 PM > > To: Leica Users Group > > Subject: Re: [Leica] M8 vs. M9 Observations.... > > > > Yes you can adjust the preferences in the adobe camera raw so there is > less > > color saturation or maybe even just vividness. That does nothing to the > > image itself until you open it. Then you cans save it as a jpeg or > whatever > > you want. > > Or if you adjust things in your camera, most of them which effect how > your > > jpegs are coming out or previews of raw which are the same thing. > > So really there is no such thing as a digital camera which is gives more > > saturated color than another. It all depends on how you have it adjusted. > > Both the camera and the software which stores and opens your pix. > > > > Mark William Rabiner > > Photography > > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ > > > > > >> From: Frank Filippone <red735i at earthlink.net> > >> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> > >> Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 18:49:57 -0700 > >> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> > >> Subject: [Leica] M8 vs M9 Observations.... > >> > >> Had an M8 for about 3 years, Got a new to me M9 a few months ago. > >> > >> > >> > >> I noted on the M9 that LR found and used an embedded camera specific > >> image profile (in the image file itself, I think). The M8 used one > >> that came from Adobe, but needed to be turned on inside LR and LR > >> never found an embedded profile for the M8. > >> > >> > >> > >> The images on the M9 are significantly more saturated and vivid in > >> their colors than the M8. ( maybe too saturated?) > >> > >> > >> > >> Is this someone else noted and is the way it is or do I have some M9 > >> adjustment set wrong? > >> > >> > >> > >> Frank Filippone > >> > >> Red735i at earthlink.net > >> > >> > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information