Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/02/28
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Well, Vick got my Xpan. I still do panoramics: 6x12 back on 4x5 (Xpan steroidally) Horizon 202 - the Widelux improved Noblex 150U - what the Widelux wished it could be when it grew up Roundshot 28/220 - make me one with EVERYTHING I used to have a couple of Widelux's from the 60's until the late 80's. They were fun when they worked, but they often streaked and weren't as much fun as they should have been. I'd dry fire mine for at least 50 shots before I loaded any film; then they were good for a roll shot within a couple of hours. The Horizon 202 is like a badly built Widelux, but it works. Most need to be adjusted and lubricated after you buy them, but then they are the best way to get into panoramics. Inexpensive, fun and quite reliable. The Noblex are the pinnacle of the 130? rotating lens cameras. The 150's take 120 film, the 135's 35mm. The better ones also have a bit of lens shift, and some like the U have long shutter speeds, but that isn't really necessary, as you can set them to multiple exposure and just let the drum rotate 30 times at 1/30s to get your 1 sec exposure. Takes just as long as with the slow speed module. Outstanding lens; a wonderful camera. I understand (but have never used) that the 35mm model (135U) is just as good. The Roundshots are full panoramic cameras. On the 28/220 you add your own 28mm lens, preferable a Schneider or Nikon 28PC and feed it 220 film. Then you set the degree of rotation in 45? increments up to 720?. For full rotation pictures I usually set it to 405 or 450?, so I can pick my start and end points later. This camera is better than the Noblex for 'decisive moment' as it has good startup torque and starts taking the picture immediately. The Noblex uses the first half rotation to get to a constant speed, which is thereafter excellent. The 6x12 backs on 4x5, such as the Horseman 6x12 on Cambo Wide hand cameras is of course instantaneous as it's not scanning, and is like the Xpan in that. Lenses in many focal lengths are available. On the Xpan I mostly used the 30mm, which is a little narrower angle of view than the 47mm Super Angulon XL which is my most used lens on the 6x12. I also have a 65/4.5 and a 35/4.5, the latter being really wide. I find the Cambo and 6x12 almost as quick to use as the Xpan with 30mm, which is part of the reason I sold the latter. The main problem is that 6x12 only gives you 6 shots on one 120 roll. If you go really wide, there are three types of distortion that you run in to. The first, seen on the Xpan, 21mm and lower lenses on 35, and on the 6x12 on Cambo Wide is the usual distortion of 3 dimensional objects in the corners, but you do get straight lines staying straight (from a good lens). The second is the distortion from a rotating lens camera like the Widelux, Noblex or Roundshot. As long as the camera is level with the horizon, you only have curved horizontal lines off the horizon. Vertical stay straight and vertical. If you want more in your picture in one shot, you go to fisheyes and then get the curved lines on everything off the central axes. If you want to do handheld panoramics in poorer light, the Horizon is good as it has a decent f/2.8 lens. The Xpan has a 45/4 and then if you want wider, a 30mm f/5.6 which needs a centre filter which takes another 1 1/2 stops, so effectively your maximum aperture is t/8-11. The rotating lens cameras don't need centre filters as they only need to cover a thin line along the short side of the film at any one time. If timing isn't as important, digital and PS is the way to go now. You even have your choice of projection. Henning On 2012-02-28, at 1:32 PM, Richard Man wrote: > Hi John, I know Nathan ALMOST got an XPan partially because of me, and Vick > got an XPan partially because of me, so that makes me feel good to be such > a good enabler :-) > > Yes, cropping is not quite the way to go since you lose so much. If you do > that, you may as well get one of the Panny m4/3 that can do 16:9 natively - > they have a 4/3 sensor such that it can do different ratio natively without > cropping down from the 16 MP, and while 16:9 is not true pano, it's not bad > either. > > Anyway, I can say for sure that a cropped M9 image does not have as much > <whatever> as a native XPan frame. > > As for XPan, yes, I mostly shoot Tri-X/Acros 100 now and sometimes Neopan > 1600. I develop my film using a 2-bath Pyrocat which is excellent in > handling different contrast frames in the same roll - everything is flatten > and you adjust the curve at post processing. Works wonder (for me). > > I did a whole pano book on mainly Japan with Provia and Astia. You can find > it on Blurb searching for my name and "Full Circle." You should be able to > preview the whole book. > > I shoot mainly with the 45 but also the 30 and 90mm. May be something like > 50% 45 and the 25% each of 30 and 90. The 30mm is for the true ultra wide > angle fan while the 90mm is for the true "I see everything in pano" fan :-) > > The best thing is I can put a 3 lens kit for the XPan AND a 3 lens set > (heck 5 lens kit) for the M9 and put in a bag normally for a big dSLR with > one big zoom lens :-) Well, I don't take telephoto or macro anyway :-) > > On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 1:14 PM, John Beal <johnbeal2 at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Thanks for the feedback, folks. All great points to consider. >> >> Richard, I recall viewing your "Occupy" series several months ago and it >> was one of the reasons I was considering something analog like a Widelux >> as >> it was capable of capturing a panoramic image in one decisive sweep. >> Several of your subjects, I'm guessing, would blur or move out of the >> frame with a snap-n-stitch approach. I've also thought of using my >> Voightlander 15mm and just masking the top and bottom thirds to create a >> poor man's XPan, but that leaves a small negative (on my M6) if I wish to >> enlarge. >> >> All of your panos are in black and white. Do you develop your own film? >> Also, is the lens on your XPan the 30mm or 45mm? >> >> Thanks, John >> >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Richard Man >> <richard at richardmanphoto.com>wrote: >> >>> They are Infidels~! :-) >>> >>> No seriously, here's the deal: if you want "convenience" (as using >>> Photoshop or other stitching software is convenient), digital is the way >> to >>> go. Check out the archive for some posting from Howard Cummer - he has >> made >>> hand swift pano stitching into an art. Basically, if you sweep steadily >> and >>> time it right, you don't even need a tripod and get quite excellent >>> results. >>> >>> For landscape and even some moving objects, that's probably the way to >> go. >>> >>> For some jaw dropping A+++++ fine art hand sweep and focus stacked stuff, >>> search for the posting from Paul Roark. With stitched M9 or other digital >>> panos, he get 30-100 megapixel images. >>> >>> However, a pano camera is a lot of fun. I have an XPan II and a TX-2 >> (same >>> thing) and I use them as much as my Leica. I started with doing mostly >>> landscapes with them, but honestly, to do landscapes well, you need huge >>> pixels nowadays, and that means digital back. So now I use the XPan also >>> for street. Check out some of the portfolios: >>> http://www.richardmanphoto.com/Portfolio/CalloftheOcean.pdf <-- >> entirely >>> XPan >>> http://www.richardmanphoto.com/Portfolio/Yosemite2011.pdf <-- mostly >> XPan >>> http://richardmanphoto.com//Portfolio/Chinatown_web.pdf <-- XPan and M9 >>> http://www.richardmanphoto.com/Portfolio/Vot99.pdf <-- XPan and M9 >>> >>> With XPan, I have printed up to 50+ inches long and the image looks good. >>> >>> The downside is... unless you print in darkroom (then you need a 6x7 >>> capable enlarger), you will need to scan. You can get acceptable results >>> using one of the new flatbed like the V500 or V750, but the best is the >>> medium format film scanner. Unfortunately since Nikon terminated the >>> product line, their LS-9000 is now typically goes for $3000 and up. >>> >>> As for XPan vs. Widelux. With XPan, you will get distortion on the edges >>> just like a wide angle lens. With Widelux and other swing lens pano >> camera, >>> all objects appear "normal," regardless their position on the image. >>> However, lines are curves and this may bother you, or not. >>> >>> Keep in mind that some people LOVE pano and you will get praises just for >>> using a pano camera but other do not get pano and they think that part of >>> the picture is missing. >>> >>> Hope this helps. Any more question, feel free to ask it here or email me >>> off list. >>> >>> -- >>> // richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> > > > > -- > // richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com> > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > Henning Wulff henningw at archiphoto.com