Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2011/10/27
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]I haven't taken Charles Cramer's workshop and Bob Adler wasn't sure his techniques would transfer to B&W (I need to ask Charles), but one of the biggest improvement in my B&W prints lately is due to George DeWolfe's book "B&W Digital Masterprint." The local and global adjustments that one can make, even under LR, is killer, let alone piling on the additional things that Photoshop can do. And the differences show even on web pics. Both Charles Cramer and Ctein are excellent photographers as well. I suspect the day of "great non-photographer printers" are gone, they are such related processed now. I enjoy my HPZ3100 immensely (although now I wish I have an Epson...) but if I ever have a show in major gallery though, you bet I will get some real pro to print my stuff. As for editing, I think I am developing a better eye now. I think it helps to do a first cut and let lots of stuff in the first round. Then let it sit for a day or two before getting brutal and cull them out... Both are continual learning processes... On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 1:48 AM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> wrote: > Its true Richard I agree some photographers would be better off having > custom printers print their work. The printing is their glaringly week link > and maybe they don't know it. Great negs. Bad prints. A darned shame. > Its just that many think of their prints as more their work. Not so much > their negs. > Adams said every time a photographer prints their neg its like a conductor > conducting a score. A performance. > The art for the conductor is the performance. > The art for the composer is the score. > A photographer does both ends. > > I guesss some photographers would be better off not shooting anything but > just printing other peoples work and some end up doing that. They'd make > great prints of really boring exposures. > > Another big weak link is editing. Helmut Newton had his wife Alice Springs > supposedly do all his editing. I've gone to some really mediocre > photographers light tables and seen masterpieces in their contact sheets, > not even a red x on them. There's no point into those ever having been shot > as no ones ever going to see them because they're not going to print them. > They like the one where they had to stand on a ladder. > > Very few shows have I ever seen where the prints were not done by the > photographer themselves. Like if I've seen 500 shows 3 of them were printed > not by the photographers. HCB is the biggest example which always comes to > mind. > I'd say that if as a photographer your printing is your weakest link just > keep working on it. And not relegate your printing to others. > Maybe by the time your 90 your printing will catch up with your shooting. > Its not going to happen if your not doing it. > If it was the film days I'd say shoot color slides. > That takes the emphasis off the printing in your workflo. > Though in digital I think the emphasis is already off printing in your > workflo unless you happen to want into the gallery print collector racket. > Most anything else all they want is jpegs which can upload to a website. > > > > But its like fashion models don't need to be 5'-9" becuae Kate Moss was > 5'-6". Its just that they do need to be 5'-9. > > > -- > Mark R. > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ > > > > From: Richard Man <richard at richardmanphoto.com> > > Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> > > Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 00:57:28 -0700 > > To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> > > Subject: Re: [Leica] How low does pigment go? > > > > The difference between a killer printer, for example, Charles Cramer, > Ctein, > > etc. and a "oh I am a photographer and also print my stuff" like myself, > is > > night and day. Same base image, outrageously different output. > > > > On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 11:06 PM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com > >wrote: > > > >> Correction (white out) > >> The whole ideal of "craft" or how good a printer he might be was NOT in > the > >> equation. > >> > >> > >>> "Appropriately" for WHAT is the center of the issue and someone who's > >>> showing their prints to a gallery owner or having a show in that > gallery > >> is > >>> not going to go to Costco to have their prints done. The very idea of > it > >> is > >>> comical. Its like a one liner. > >>> Yes the way many people print on their printers now rivals machine > prints > >>> with the profiles. > >>> Digital does change a few things. > >>> I was at Calumet this week and a guy was showing his prints off this > >> laptop > >>> to the head guy they have a large gallery upstairs. It looked like he'd > >>> gotten the show and the basis of his jpegs on his laptop and was being > >>> explained the details of publicity and so on. > >>> The whole ideal of "craft" or how good a printer he might be was in the > >>> equation. That's because we're all using the same profiles and > >>> Spiders I guess. > >>> I think there are a few people out there who just like they'd done in > the > >>> darkroom go back and forth with their prints critically not already > >> working > >>> on the next one before the previous one is out of the machine. > >>> I used to take more responsibly for Xerox copies than people do now > with > >>> their inkjets. > >>> There was a "sharpness" button on the schools Xerox. You had to decide > if > >>> you were going to press it or not. And it made a big difference and > >> you'd > >>> not want to press it if it didn't need it. > >>> -- > >>> Mark R. > >>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ > >>> > >>> > >>>> From: Adam Bridge <abridge at mac.com> > >>>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> > >>>> Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 18:38:07 -0700 > >>>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> > >>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] How low does pigment go? > >>>> > >>>> Well, don't be so snarky about Costco, Mark. Yeah, they're big and so > >> they > >>>> can't do anything good. > >>>> > >>>> BUT, Costco does color-profile and you can go on-line to find your > local > >>>> store > >>>> and determine which printing technologies they offer and which papers > so > >> you > >>>> can prepare your images appropriately. > >>>> > >>>> Here's a link: > >>>> > >>>> <http://www.drycreekphoto.com/icc/> > >>>> > >>>> I recently went to an exhibition at the US Bicycle Hall of Fame where > >> all the > >>>> images were printed by (gasp) Costco . . . and they looked damn good. > I > >> was > >>>> quite surprised when I learned where they were printed. > >>>> > >>>> Adam > >>>> > >>>> On Oct 25, 2011, at 8:31 PM, Mark Rabiner wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Adorama is a camera store. > >>>>> Costco is a mega store or some kind. > >>>>> > >>>>> If the yellow pages still existed they'd not be in the same section > >> with > >>>>> Custom Printers. Those are people who work in a small place that does > >> mainly > >>>>> that. Often just one person who does mainly that. > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Mark R. > >>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> From: Richard Man <richard at richardmanphoto.com> > >>>>>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> > >>>>>> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 19:03:40 -0700 > >>>>>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] How low does pigment go? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Yes, I should have said, "..like Adorama or other similar outfit." > >> Heck, I > >>>>>> know some people who rely on Costco!!! > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 6:49 PM, Sonny Carter <sonc.hegr at > >>>>>> gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Shutterfly does a pretty nice job too. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> // richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Leica Users Group. > >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more > information > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Leica Users Group. > >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Leica Users Group. > >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Leica Users Group. > >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > // richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Leica Users Group. > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > -- // richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com>