[Leica] Helping others

[tedgrant at shaw.ca (tedgrant at shaw.ca)]

Jeesh this could go on forever.

>>> So why rank against Peter Klein for donating a photo of his dog to a web
> site? Isn't that just helping an organization that he supports. A double
> standard or just a knee jerk protection of turf? <<<

I don't believe anyone "ranked " against Peter doing his thing of offering a 
photo to an organization of merit for the well being of   Man, Woman and 
critters! Besides he's a big boy and a pro and knows the difference between 
for free from the heart and asking for compensation. No different than the 
other pros on list!

Many of us under the right circumstances also do that. But the damaging 
aspect is "true amateurs" who have no concept of good bad and ugly of who 
they are dealing with when giving their photography free merely for a 
creditline constantly.

If all the free givers for a credit-line stopped giving it away, realizing 
they could earn some income simply by asking for it, it might make it better 
for folks all round!  I encourage camera club members when speaking with 
groups, when they're asked for a free photo. To always ask, "Is there a 
budget for purchasing photos?" No harm done, because quite often they find 
out.. "Yes, not much but given it's for a worthy cause would $50 dollars be 
OK?" Then the freebie person can make a decision whether to take the $50 or 
ask for more..... "OR GIVE IT FOR FREE!" At least it puts a dollar value on 
ones time and print paper.

And better still.... the outfit asking for a free photo learns to develop a 
"Photo Fund" even though a minor one. And they learn the value we place on 
our talent and prints.

>>What I object to is the attitude of some members of the LUG that
> free pictures somehow reduce the earning capability of working 
> photographers
> even though the working photographer was not in competition with the
> amateur.<<<<<<<<<<<

That's not the point and an assumed situation by you! How do you know the 
amateur isn't cutting out a pro along the way?

>>But if their efforts are no better than the "free" photos volunteered by 
>>amateurs, they
> they should either strive to improve their skills, get a better agent, or 
> find some other line of work. <

That would seem simple common sense. We all know or have seen the "photos of 
incompetent "pros!" I mean you wouldn't paper an out house with the 
pictures! They leave you almost gasping for breath the material is out and 
out crap! But  their viability is determined by the purchaser of his/her 
services. Not whether they give photos away free or not!

>>As you pointed out yourself, in a newsworthy situation, almost anyone can 
>>pick up a modern wi-fi equipped camera and
> submit an adequate photo to a publication. It may not be the best but it 
> will do.<<<,,

That's true, it happens everyday with newspapers and TV stations simply 
because, the kid on the street photographs with his magic phone camera a bus 
crash as it happens. And sends it to the newspaper immediately, making front 
page. Quite often for free. Some establishments offer compensation, not 
much. I think this is getting off track as there probably wouldn't have been 
a pro, nor newspaper staff shooter on the street as it happened.... so who 
cares free or not?


ted





----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lawrence Zeitlin" <lrzeitlin at gmail.com>
To: "Leica LUG" <lug at leica-users.org>
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Leica] Helping others


> Ted writes as an excuse for not paying for advice:
>
> "We don't and haven't charged each other for our experinece and pleasure 
> of
>
> helping each other! WHY? Simply because we assist each other in exchange 
> of
>
> our greart wisdom! :-) And buddies don't charge buddies for a helping 
> hand!
>
> See how easy it is?"
>
>
> - - - - -
>
>
> So why rank against Peter Klein for donating a photo of his dog to a web
> site? Isn't that just helping an organization that he supports. A double
> standard or just a knee jerk protection of turf?
>
>
> I'm all in favor of giving free advice and assistance to friends and 
> virtual
> web friends.  It is a voluntary action in a situation that I entered into
> freely. But when someone requests service in my area of expertise through
> normal business channels I expect payment, the services and fees agreed 
> upon
> upfront. What I object to is the attitude of some members of the LUG that
> free pictures somehow reduce the earning capability of working 
> photographers
> even though the working photographer was not in competition with the
> amateur. If the working photographer is good enough, clients will line up 
> to
> get his/her services. Obviously they did so in your case. But if their
> efforts are no better than the "free" photos volunteered by amateurs, they
> they should either strive to improve their skills, get a better agent, or
> find some other line of work. As you pointed out yourself, in a newsworthy
> situation, almost anyone can pick up a modern wi-fi equipped camera and
> submit an adequate photo to a publication. It may not be the best but it
> will do.
>
> Larry Z
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information