Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2009/08/07

[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]

Subject: [Leica] Peter's article on Wagner is up
From: photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 07:27:11 +0200
References: <14401398.1249682653247.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Well, I generally avoid Disney but for other reason :-)

The key difference is that Wagner provided a part of the ideological  
and cultural inspiration for the Nazis, and his descendants were part  
of the circle, as Peter documented in his article.

Ford and Disney were just garden-variety anti-Semites, a dime a dozen  
at the time.

I am named after an uncle I never knew, my father's younger brother  
Natan who was murdered by the Germans at age 12 or 13 in Lublin, some  
time in 1940.

For avoidance of doubt, I love visiting Germany, more or less speak  
the language and have had many German friends over the years. It is a  
different place today, one in which I am entirely comfortable. Wagner,  
however, belongs to that other Germany--FOR ME. I accept that this is  
not the case for many other, Jews or non-Jews, and I am not trying to  
stop anyone from listening to Wagner. I just don't listen to him  
myself and that's that.

Incidentally, a somewhat similar discussion can be had (and is being  
had) about the Norwegian Nobel Prize winning writer Knut Hamsun, who  
wrote some of the greatest literature of the first half of the 20th  
century (first novel in 1890, last one in 1936) but who was an ardent  
supporter of the Nazis, to the very end, writing an emotional eulogy  
of Hitler after the suicide in the bunker. This year is the 150th  
anniversary of his birth and the debate is quite intense in Norway. I  
have read Hamsun's books--go figure!

Nathan

Nathan Wajsman
Alicante, Spain
http://www.frozenlight.eu
http://www.greatpix.eu
http://www.nathanfoto.com

Books: http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/search?search=wajsman&x=0&y=0
PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
Blog: http://www.fotocycle.dk/blog



On Aug 8, 2009, at 12:04 AM, Doug Herr wrote:

> Not to condone Wagner's anti-semite views, but it seems his music is  
> guilty mostly by association with the Nazis.  I wonder - and this is  
> an honest question - among those who refuse to listen to Wagner's  
> music, is there a similar response to the products of other well- 
> known anti-semites, such as Disney and Ford?
>
> Doug Herr
> Birdman of Sacramento
> http://www.wildlightphoto.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Geoff Hopkinson <hopsternew at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Aug 7, 2009 5:23 PM
>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Peter's article on Wagner is up
>>
>> Steve I understand what you said.
>> Given my friend Nathan's reasons I thought it worthwhile to support  
>> him.
>> I cannot begin to comprehend how someone with Nathan's heritage  
>> would feel.
>> It's not an academic subject for generic discussion for him or  
>> millions of
>> others.
>>
>> 2009/8/8 Steve Barbour <steve.barbour at gmail.com>
>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 7, 2009, at 8:04 AM, Geoff Hopkinson wrote:
>>>
>>> Steve, it is that simple for Nathan though, which is what he has  
>>> said.
>>>> Naturally his strong views are unsurprising.
>>>> Nathan has read the article though and complimented Peter on the  
>>>> quality
>>>> of
>>>> his writing, despite those very understandable views.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> well aware Geoff, though I was trying to keep this generic,
>>>
>>> but thanks for pointing out the obvious...
>>>
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> 2009/8/8 Steve Barbour <steve.barbour at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> Very well written article. For me, it is not that complicated.  
>>>> Wagner
>>>>>
>>>>>> was a Nazi before the Nazi party even existed, and I will not  
>>>>>> touch
>>>>>>> his music with a flagpole
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> it is not that simple,
>>>>>
>>>>> at least...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> if it were...I would find out the composers the Nazi's didn't  
>>>>> like...
>>>>>
>>>>> they would be my favorite composers....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more  
>>>>> information
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Geoff
>>>> Alles was eine gute Kamera braucht / Everything a good camera  
>>>> needs:
>>>>
>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/gh/
>>>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more  
>>>> information
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> best,
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> steve.barbour at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Cheers
>> Geoff
>> Alles was eine gute Kamera braucht / Everything a good camera needs:
>>
>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/gh/
>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information



In reply to: Message from wildlightphoto at earthlink.net (Doug Herr) ([Leica] Peter's article on Wagner is up)