[Leica] Women

[chs2018 at med.cornell.edu (Chris Saganich)]

The summer after I finished my undergraduate studies I found a job 
working with the summer cleaning crew at the local high 
school.  Before long the head custodian showed me a closet inside 
which was another double door (half top half bottom) which opened 
into the girls locker room.  There was a clear view into the locker 
room between the double door.  I have no doubt the janitor spent much 
time on his knees in that closet.  That is lecherous and subversive 
behavior.  What your describing I think is just poor taste.

At 06:22 PM 7/24/2009, you wrote:
>Let me preface this with the statement that I'm not trying to be 
>hurtful at all. Just posing some questions to the list about 
>"proper" "street photography" and were we all draw the line between 
>art, documentation and objectification.
>
>I've mentioned this before on the LUG with it only to be swept aside 
>quickly but didn't have my questions answered then and still I'm not 
>having my questions answered now. so at the risk of castigating 
>myself among this community I pose the question: "If were to take a 
>photo of a woman's bottom with my Leica is it street photography?" 
>Further: "If I were to ask that woman before I took the photo if i 
>could do so, would she allow me?" Further still: "If I took the 
>photo with my nearly silent digital rangefinder THEN told her and 
>showed her the photo, would she approve or would I get 
>slapped/arrested/have my camera confiscated or destroyed?"
>Yes, i am aware that I'm asking questions of morality based upon my 
>own beliefs and as much as I don't want to impress them upon anyone 
>else, i strongly believe that photographers all over the world have 
>a duty to be respectful in their work and respectful towards other 
>people. I may be guilty of this in some very few instances but I 
>also don't want to be complicit in this behavior and further 
>validate it. The taking of photos in this manner actually does harm 
>to the rights of photographers around the world. Making the case 
>that this is not a social more or convention in other countries only 
>serves to prove that objectification in those places is the norm and 
>is acceptable.
>As English is the language of the LUG, the very nature of calling 
>them "senoritas" takes away from them being women. it makes them 
>"other" and as such more acceptable to objectify. It is a long 
>established tactic of distancing the subject of conversation to 
>create an other and feeds sexism, racism and all those other traits 
>which we claim to be making our way past in the 21st century. It's a 
>way to make her not a woman but an acceptable object. If there were 
>more women on the LUG would we see as much of this? Would it be as 
>accepted? If the language of the LUG were Spanish would it be as accepted?
>Its objectification is what it is. Sorry, but the few years I've 
>been here on the the LUG I've seen my fair share of very 
>non-interactive photos from afar with the celebrated 85mm Sonnar or 
>90mm whatnot. Who are we kidding when talking about the "low 
>contrast" or bokeh or whatever smokescreen we all put up to allow 
>ourselves to gaze without guilt or shame on a blatant photo of a 
>woman's ass? I don't want to be pushing my morals on people but this 
>is not photojournalism or street photography or whatever you want to 
>call it. Its borderline lecherous subversive image capture is what 
>it is. All the talk of subtle tones and resolution and all that jazz 
>are just up there to make us feel less dirty in our own viewing of 
>the photo. Sometimes when I take/took photos of that part of women, 
>they have often been tied up & suspended completely nude or almost 
>so, but knew that I was there, hired to make those photos. There was 
>a sort of pact of personal integrity and each other's morals th
>  at the model and I had between each other. In spite of the release 
> form and legal documents, if I were to make any of them 
> uncomfortable for any reason, I'm out of there. This street 
> photography is not ironic or cheeky or academic or making some 
> statement other than a woman has a nice bottom. That's just not the 
> best way to pursue street photography if you were to ask me.
>I'm disappointed in what this esteemed community finds acceptable 
>and while I'll not quit the list, I'll not  be complicit either.
>Again, I'm not out to hurt anyone. Just to maybe open some eyes to 
>what I view as photographic hypocrisy and lack of respect.
>Phil Forrest
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Leica Users Group.
>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information