Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2009/05/02
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]As John has said, the M8 frames work the same way as they did for the
film M: they are adjusted for minimum focus distance.
The reason for the uproar when the M8 came out is that only then did
people have instant feedback on what they shot.
With film, by the time most people got it back they forgot how they
framed it. Now, the timespan until feedback is much shorter, and
people _can_ remember how they framed it. :-)
As I said, you get used to the parameters, and you shoot with it.
Since the M8 has framelines as I've gotten used to them over more
than 40 years, I like them better that way, and I don't have to
rethink going between film and digital.
At 1:57 PM +1000 5/2/09, Geoff Hopkinson wrote:
>Sheesh, tough crowd! ;-) You guys must do some very precise and careful
>framing. That's expecting a lot from this viewfinder. I just use the
>frame-lines as an approximation and accept that I get a little more
>coverage than is shown sometimes. I frame portraits slightly more tightly
>in anticipation, if I really want to fill the frame. I don't expect 100%
>accuracy, nor can use the thickness of a frame line difference to any
>practical purpose. The M7 allowed for a slight crop at any distance anyway
>(maybe tradition or a slide mount's dimensions?)
>
>Typically shooting portraits or similar, with a 75 or 90, working around 2-3
>metres, I noticed significant extra area coverage than shown, hence my
>preference for the new M8.2 adjustment. Shooting landscapes or buildings or
>anything out to infinity, especially with wides, I find the inaccuracy
>completely unoticeable and unimportant.
>
>When the M8 came into service, the *perception* expressed by many people was
>that the framelines are overly tight. Partly maybe because they were now
>suddenly seeing the immediate result, which didn't happen with film cameras.
>Just like operator focus errors too (also of course the intolerance of the
>sensor in that regard). Leica responded by adjusting the framelines
>differently to make them less tight for common applications, common lens
>focal lengths and focal distances.
>
>Here's the official guff if anyone wants to look.
>
>*M7:
>*Correspondence of image in viewfinder and on film The bright-line
>frame *corresponds
>to a 23 x 35mm image for each focal length set to its shortest distance.* At
>infinity, the film frame, depending on the focal length covers approx. 9%
>(28mm) to 20% (135mm) more than shown in the corresponding brightline frame.
>
>*M8:
>*Matching of viewfinder and actual picture The size of the bright-line frame
>*corresponds to an image size of 18 x 27mm at the shortest setting distance
>for each focal length.* At infinity setting, depending on the focal length,
>approx. 9% (28mm) to 23% (90m) more of the view is recorded than indicated
>by the corresponding bright-line frame.
>
>*M8.2:
>*Matching of viewfinder and actual picture The size of the bright-line frame
>*corresponds to the sensor size of 18 x 27mm at a setting distance of 2
>meters.* At infinity setting, depending on the focal length, approx.7,3 %
>(24 mm) to 18 % (90 mm) more of the view is recorded by the sensor than
>indicated by the corresponding bright-line frame and slightly less for
>shorter distance settings than 2 m.
>
>2009/5/2 John Collier <jbcollier at shaw.ca>
>
>> All recent film Ms and M8
>>
>> - inside framelines at minimum focus
>> - outside edge at aproximately 2 m
>> - roughly three frameline widths extra all round at infinity
>>
>> Naturally this varies with focal length with longer lens showing greater
>> variance.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>> On 1-May-09, at 8:41 PM, Geoff Hopkinson wrote:
>>
>> John, I understood that the change in the M8.2 is to the setup in your
>>> film
>>> M rather than the frame lines approximating the framing at the minimum
>>> focus
>>> distance. Of course they are not identical to the Film M's; different
>>> sets,
>>> different magnifications.
>>>
>>> 2009/5/2 John Collier <jbcollier at shaw.ca>
>>>
>>> I prefer the M8 framelines as they are the same as all my film Ms,
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 1-May-09, at 8:32 PM, Geoff Hopkinson wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Henning, the frame line difference is personal preference, I'm sure. As
>>>> is
>>>>
>>>>> the importance of the 1/8000 setting and the quieter shutter. Yours is
>>>>> the
>>>>> first expressed preference for the M8 frame lines over the M8.2 that I
>>>>> have
>>>>> read. As you say, you adjust to what you have. 'More accurate
>>>>> framelines'
>>>>> from me was just meant to indicate the different setup. I guess I need
>>>>> to
>>>>> choose my words more carefully ;-)
>>>>> Leica presumably was responding to expressed preferences when they
>>>>> changed
>>>>> to the new arrangement.
>>>>> I wish that they would run the discounted upgrade programme over
>>>>> here. I
>>>>> guess this is a Leica USA initiative? In Aus an M8.2 new is double the
>>>>> (discounted) price of the M8 new now. Any M8 service at all and any
>>>>> upgrade
>>>>> all goes to Solms.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2009/5/2 Henning Wulff <henningw at archiphoto.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> Goes to show that personal preferences are what count. I'd pay maybe
>>>>> $5
>>>>>
>>>>>> more for an M8.2, figuring that the pluses of the 8.2 pretty much
>>>>>> balance
>>>>>> the lack of 1/8000sec.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To add to that. The 'more accurate framelines' belong to the M8, as
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> shows what you get at minimum focus. The 8.2 framelines show what you
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> between minimum and infinity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For accurate framing I like a view camera or a digital P&S or dslr
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> LiveView. With the M8, like any other Leica RF, you get used to the
>>>>>> parameters, and then work with that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At 6:07 PM -0500 5/1/09, David Keenan wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there any REALLY good reason to pass on an M8 demo and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> hold out for the 8.2?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ric --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>--
>Cheers
>Geoff
>'Breathe In, Breathe Out, Move On'
>http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/gh/
>http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman
>
>_______________________________________________
>Leica Users Group.
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--
* Henning J. Wulff
/|\ Wulff Photography & Design
/###\ mailto:henningw at archiphoto.com
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