Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2009/01/17
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Hi Frank, Thank you for your good explanation, you have a really good knowledge, the problem with the Hi-Fi is as you know that the prices to improve quality increase geometrically, in other words, if your actual investiment is level 10 to have a quality level 15 you should pay 20, and to have a quality 23 you should pay 35... In my experience when I've purchased something I've paid attention to the differences etc.., even the shop who sells me they know me after I was very young and they leave me the things at home to try and compare..., but once you buy it you are used to listen and many, many times I don't pay attention to the details that make better an outfit over the other. Saludos cordiales Lluis El 17/01/2009, a las 19:03, Frank Dernie escribi?: > Hi Lluis! > Before I took up my current career I did R&D and design of record > players. You are absolutely right, the requirement of the turntable > is to rotate at constant speed and no sound parasites. The technical > problem is to achieve this. No turntable I have ever measured or > heard actually achieves it. Our ears are more sensitive than any > transducer in both frequency and amplitude. There is -no- turntable > ever made which produces no sound parasites, and the vast majority > produce a lot of sound parasites and at quite high level. Clever > designers design their players so the parasitic resonances and > feedback are at frequencies and "Q" that listeners find pleasant. > Many record players I have measured have very obviously been tuned > to only add harmonious "interference". > There was one very highly regarded SME arm, the 3009, which had such > energetic resonances that they could be seen as big peaks on the > curve if one was trying to measure a pickup cartridge, the signal > added by this arm at some frequencies was louder than the original > music! The other thing difficult to avoid is the time delayed > feedback from the sound in the room, both structure-borne and > airborne. > > A few people have tried to lower there parasitics considerably. The > ones I have seen which do this in a technically sound way are > Goldmund and Continuum (there are others who get part way there at a > less "no compromise price"). I am familiar with the Goldmund (the > original not the new limited edition one which seems ludicrously > expensive) Of all those I know it allows by far the lowest level of > parasitic interference get to the pickup cartridge. What Continuum > print is technically very sound. I would not be surprised to find it > superior to the Goldmund in these respects. > > The Clearaudio is based on pseudo-technical gobbledygook which is > either there to keep their secrets or, looking at the design, simply > to separate clients from their cash. In my opinion. > > The pickup cartridge is, as you say, very important. I also use an > Ortofon. In fact the generator design and pivot damping dominate the > characteristics at lower frequencies. As frequencies increase the > shape of the stylus tip is increasingly important, I forget the > frequency limit for the original spherical tips but at a > surprisingly low frequency the radius of the tip is bigger than the > curve it would have to follow in the groove. At this point it starts > being very inaccurate. The best stylus tips are very expensive. All > this is wasted however if the turntable and arm either generate > parasites or allow feedback through. All turntables do to a > surprisingly high degree, the nice ones are the ones that add > harmonious interference! > > best regards, > > Frank > > > On 17 Jan, 2009, at 16:26, Lluis Ripoll wrote: > >> Frank, >> >> This is a beautiful "toy"! >> >> In my opinion the turntable is not a "main element", the capsule >> could be more important. For me the work of a turntable should be: >> constant speed, and no sound parasites, the good work is do by the >> rest of the installation and also a vey important thing, I've >> expend some money on have good cables and connectors. My turntable >> is a Lenco L-78 from the 70's with an Ortophon capsule and it still >> sound very good, enought for me. >> >> Saludos cordiales >> Lluis >> >> >> El 17/01/2009, a las 11:32, Frank Dernie escribi?: >> >>> I know most of you will think this high price stuff is a joke, and >>> at this price (and actually, looking at the design as a person who >>> used to design high end turntables >30 years ago, this particular >>> item is a victory for marketing). The most important engineering >>> aspects for a turntable to work well are not addressed in this >>> design, more a styling/marketing exercise (IMHO). >>> It is actually extremely high tech to produce a device to >>> transduce records without adding some, or a lot, of non signal >>> related vibrations ends up being added to the output by the >>> machine. A record playing device which works well is likely to >>> cost several orders on magnitude more than any CD player, and is >>> probably not worth it........ >>> The device I have measured and listened to which is the most >>> accurate, the Goldmund Reference was very expensive (not as much >>> as this thing though) and made in tiny quantities. >>> >>> There is a very expensive turntable system which, based on my >>> knowledge, probably is the most accurate one available. It >>> cleverly addresses all the important requirements I know of. I >>> have never seen or listened to one. >>> >>> http://www.continuumaudiolabs.com/ >>> >>> but not as pretty. >>> FWIW, >>> Frank >>> >>> >>> On 16 Jan, 2009, at 20:17, Henning Wulff wrote: >>> >>>> At 12:26 PM -0700 1/16/09, Greg Lorenzo wrote: >>>>> George Lottermoser writes:> > >>>>> <http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/01/16/ces.luxury.turntable/index.html? >>>>> > iref=mpstoryview>> > nonsensically cryptic,> george >>>>> >>>>> Quoted from the link: >>>>> >>>>> "When I look at it," said Placido Pappalardo, co-owner of maker >>>>> Angelis Labor, "the only word that comes to mind is love." >>>>> >>>>> The first word that came to my mind was 'stupid'. >>>>> >>>>> Greg Lorenzo >>>>> Calgary, Canada >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> How about this one for $125,000? >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.musicalsurroundings.com/clearaudio/CAstatement.html >>>> >>>> >>>> But the tonearms are included. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> * Henning J. Wulff >>>> /|\ Wulff Photography & Design >>>> /###\ mailto:henningw@archiphoto.com >>>> |[ ]| http://www.archiphoto.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>>> information >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information