Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2008/12/21
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Seth, This is what happens when you have a financial system where everyone involved gets paid upfront, including the rating agencies. It severely compromises the whole system, and nobody does any due diligence. The only ones affected at the end of it all is the borrower, and the greatest fool somewhere on earth who is holding a scrap paper at the end of it all. Paulson and co. had taken their bonuses and decamped long before the s**t hit the roof....I am stunned that the government is not going after the past bonuses of investment bankers that were based on paper profits which in turn were based on even more dubious internal valuations. Cheers Jayanand On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 7:57 PM, Seth Rosner <sethrosner@nycap.rr.com>wrote: > Jayanand, > > Exactly so; except that one needs to distinguish between those borrowers > who knew what they were doing and were just plainly greedy to buy-and-flip, > and those - and there were many, and many of them barely knew English - who > were deliberately and fraudulently lied to and lured into signing contracts > they hadn't read and wouldn't have understood if they had. Similar thbiongs > were going on in the auto business: salesmen going out and searching for > uncredit-worthy buyers to bring in, sign on leases the sales guys knew they > couldn't pay, knowing that the cars would be repossessed withint 4-6 > months; > doing it simply to meet sels quotas and get their commissions. I know > personally some dealerships where this happened - and the sales guys were > summarily canned. > > Best, > > Seth > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jayanand Govindaraj" < > jayanand@gmail.com> > To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org> > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 9:00 PM > Subject: Re: [Leica] un-believable - now 'way' off-topic and long > > > > Seth, >> I agree with you 100% about deregulation and the venality of the bankers. >> But dont underestimate the greed of the borrowers either, it takes two to >> tango. Its a cultural thing, dont save, borrow and borrow and borrow. >> Remember caveat emptor (Let the buyer beware) is the keyword in any >> contract. >> Cheers >> Jayanand >> >> On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 2:41 AM, Seth Rosner <sethrosner@nycap.rr.com >> >wrote: >> >> Oh yes, Frank, the folks who adore free market capitalism - run amok. >>> Deregulate! Let the criminals fleece investors, earn billions of dollars >>> in >>> compensation and leave it to taxpayers to save the world while permitting >>> the criminals to retain their billions. Don't get me started. >>> >>> Three years ago my nephew was writing reports and making oral >>> presentations >>> to clients of his firm that predicted exactly what has occurred, accusing >>> Moody's and Standard & Poors, the two major credit rating agencies, of >>> gross >>> negligence in failing adequately to assess precisely the risks of the >>> financial skullduggery that led to 30-1 leverage ratios for lenders, >>> mortgage brokers l;ying to and conning poor people into buying homes they >>> couldn't possibly afford and the hedge fund crimes that ensued. Josh was >>> predicting exactly what happened. The firm asked him to resign as their >>> clients were offended! >>> >>> Now he consults frequently with the finance committees of our Senate and >>> House of Representatives on legislative solutions, appears regularly as a >>> commentator on financial news programs and last summer was invited by the >>> Brookings Institute to Paris for its three-day program on the sub-prime >>> melt-down where he appeared on several panels with Paul Volker, former >>> Chairman of the Federal Reserve. >>> >>> Finally the people who brought you this world mess leave Washington >>> exactly >>> one month from today. They will leave behind a fair number of >>> Congresspersons of similar persuasion, so the war is not yet won. >>> >>> Gals and guys, understand that I am an independent voter, not registered >>> in >>> any party for decades; I've cast my ballots for Democrats and Republicans >>> for the presidency, the Senate and House and for state and local offices. >>> Unfortunately the Republican Party was highjacked thirty years ago or >>> more >>> by unprincipled thugs whose only precepts were to say and do anything for >>> money and power, lie, cheat, deceive. They've made the world a messier >>> place >>> than it's been in many, many years. >>> >>> Fortunately slightly more than half of the American electorate saw fit to >>> make an African-American our President. He's smart, principled and >>> burdened >>> with the worst economy since the Great Depression and the worst world >>> crisis >>> since the demise of the Soviet Union. We'll see. >>> >>> Today seems to be my rant day. Please forgive. >>> >>> Seth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Dernie" < >>> Frank.Dernie@btinternet.com> >>> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org> >>> Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 3:31 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Leica] un-believable - now off-topic and long-ish >>> >>> >>> Completely agree Seth. OTOH it was the government that removed the >>> >>>> controls put in place post 1929 crash and left the inmates to run the >>>> prison... >>>> Greed blinds people to reality, look at the Madoff (sp) deal, no >>>> investor could have believed it was straight with those returns but >>>> they turned a blind eye as long as the cash came in. >>>> Frank >>>> >>>> On 20 Dec, 2008, at 16:44, Seth Rosner wrote: >>>> >>>> caught in the economic catastrophe caused by the criminals who have >>>> >>>>> run the banks and investment banks and come close to destroying the >>>>> world economy. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.19/1857 - Release Date: >>> 12/19/2008 >>> 10:09 AM >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.19/1859 - Release Date: 12/20/2008 > 2:34 PM > > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >