Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2007/06/25

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Subject: [Leica] 'cron 50mm DR on M8
From: kididdoc at cox.net (Steve Barbour)
Date: Mon Jun 25 10:50:53 2007
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20070623000603.00bdbb40@mail.2alpha.com> <B93CAC88-A478-4FC6-9575-C95ACA46B9C3@btinternet.com> <AA23CB5C-1D58-4A6A-AC3E-F207B8F1AC87@cox.net> <8FD3092E-2050-4AE2-BD48-5765208481B7@btinternet.com> <02165062-CB1F-4BB3-BEB9-8BE70067226E@cox.net> <D4F300C1-640A-49AC-9966-B5FAB7B2EF1E@comcast.net> <DD000D8B-BC54-4D1F-A88B-FBCF13A76BE7@cox.net> <9b678e0706231516o143b2cb9nebb8b0bc5fb70477@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20070625104843.01dbd748@pop.med.cornell.edu>

thanks Chris...


the DR is quite special....Steve


On Jun 25, 2007, at 8:20 AM, Chris Saganich wrote:

> I know from using both lens I have to change development times for  
> my B&W film a bit to compensate for the higher contrast of the  
> current 50/2.  The added resolution really is a boon in the close- 
> mode and I think it is more pleasant then the Black Elmarit 65 on a  
> visoflex.
> Some close examples with DR, Elmarit 65 and Trix.
>
> DR and TriX
>
> http://www.imagebrooklyn.com/street_pages_2007/bs022.htm
>
> http://www.imagebrooklyn.com/street_pages_2007/bs018.htm
>
> http://www.imagebrooklyn.com/street_pages_2007/bs014.htm
>
> Elmarit 65 and viso and TriX.  Same soup.
>
> http://www.imagebrooklyn.com/street_pages_2007/bs048.htm
>
> http://www.imagebrooklyn.com/street_pages_2007/bs045.htm
>
> http://www.imagebrooklyn.com/street_pages_2007/bs056.htm
>
> Current 50/2, trix, same soup
>
> http://www.imagebrooklyn.com/street_pages_2007/bs043.htm
>
> http://www.imagebrooklyn.com/street_pages_2007/bs039.htm
>
> http://www.imagebrooklyn.com/street_pages_2007/bs042.htm
>
> For an M8 I think it is well worth having two, one rigid and one  
> DR.  My only issue with the lenses is the front element is so  
> delicate I'm wary of damage and so shy away from taking it  
> traveling.  One of the best interesting gadgets I picked-up for the  
> DR is a diaphragm adjusting ring, VTROO (16856) (page 148 in the  
> Lager book Vol III), intended for use on a Focomount but makes a  
> great lens hood.  Well worth the 60$ if you can find one.
>
> Chris
>
> At 06:16 PM 6/23/2007, you wrote:
>> Steve,
>> The DR and the "Rigid" Summicron are probably the same formula: we  
>> have had
>> many a long discussion about this over the years.  It is a seven  
>> element
>> formulation which is very different from the current formula.  In  
>> essence,
>> the DR is the last of the high resolution relatively low accutance  
>> designs.
>> The next formulation went for much higher contrast/accutance at  
>> the expense
>> of some resolution.
>>
>> The confusion comes about because MTF charts are all about the  
>> ability to
>> define square wave forms so the new designs are created for the  
>> test.  Older
>> designs would resolve much higher resolutions at admittedly low  
>> contrast.
>> Think of a really long tail where even at very low contrast levels  
>> you can
>> distinguish between two lines.
>>
>> On 6/23/07, Steve Barbour <kididdoc@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 23, 2007, at 12:26 PM, Leonard Taupier wrote:
>>>
>>> > Steve,
>>> >
>>> > The experts say the DR and the Rigid made at the same time  
>>> ( 1956 -
>>> > 1968 ) are the same lens in formula and performance.
>>>
>>>
>>> so I have one further question and we can wrap this up....
>>>
>>> are they in fact the same optically as the current !!  summicron
>>> 50/2  and if not, how are they different...
>>>
>>>
>>> and yes I have read Puts and Gandy, and each time they seem more
>>> confusing, Steve
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Len
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Jun 23, 2007, at 3:20 PM, Steve Barbour wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> sorry Frank...
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> this discussion is getting a little too deep for me...  :-)
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> is the cron 50 DR identical to the old rigid cron 50... of that
>>> >> era...
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> or is it identical to the cron 50 which is available today  ?...
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> (as people say that the two are different from one another)
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> thanks, Steve
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Jun 23, 2007, at 12:11 PM, Frank Dernie wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> I mean contemporary with the one you own.
>>> >>> Frank
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On 23 Jun, 2007, at 13:49, Steve Barbour wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Jun 23, 2007, at 12:49 AM, Frank Dernie wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> The contemporary
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> thanks Frank... do you mean the contemporary from then or
>>> >>>> now....  ?
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Steve
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> rigid Summicron is identical to the DR, apart from the close
>>> >>>>> focus arrangement. If you like the look so much why not get  
>>> one
>>> >>>>> of those as well?
>>> >>>>> Frank
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> On 23 Jun, 2007, at 08:29, Peter Klein wrote:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Steve:  That was me.  I had the idea of getting a cheap Rigid
>>> >>>>>> Summicron with bad glass and the correct focal length marked
>>> >>>>>> inside.  The DR and Rigid lens heads unscrew from the mounts,
>>> >>>>>> so I thought I could put my DR lens head in the rigid mount
>>> >>>>>> for the M8, and still have the close range on film.  I asked
>>> >>>>>> DAG about it, and he said that the mounts were different and
>>> >>>>>> it wouldn't work.  But he also said that he could cut off the
>>> >>>>>> close focus part of the cam, and then it would work in the
>>> >>>>>> normal range on the M8.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> The unmodified DR does work in close-focus range on the  
>>> M8.  I
>>> >>>>>> know for sure, because I've tried it. When it's set in the
>>> >>>>>> normal range, the close-focus half of the cam sticks out too
>>> >>>>>> far, and it hits something inside the body when you try to
>>> >>>>>> mount it.  I have read about this, and I have decided to
>>> >>>>>> believe it and not try it myself.  :-)
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> I'm still thinking about whether to have DAG do the
>>> >>>>>> "operation."  It will depend on how much I like the 67mm
>>> >>>>>> equivalent length the 50mm turns into on the M8.  And whether
>>> >>>>>> I want to desecrate a sacred object.   Funny that I feel this
>>> >>>>>> way--I've used the close range all of twice since I got the
>>> >>>>>> lens.  But another DR was my first Leica lens, way back in
>>> >>>>>> 1970.  I really love how the DR draws, how it's made, how it
>>> >>>>>> feels.  And it's a Wetzlar product from the Golden Age.  So
>>> >>>>>> I'm reluctant to give the lens a "vasectomy" unless I'd  
>>> really
>>> >>>>>> use it a lot on the M8.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Decision postponed while I experiment with my other 50s.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> --Peter
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> At 02:29 PM 6/21/2007 -0700, Steve Barbour wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>  recall hearing that the cron 50mm DR can be modified,
>>> >>>>>>> so that it can be used on the M8 body...
>>> >>>>>>> maybe that was reported here...
>>> >>>>>>> if someone can substantiate this, and give me details, I'd
>>> >>>>>>> appreciate
>>> >>>>>>> it...
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> thanks, Steve
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>>> >>>>>> information
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>>> >>>>> information
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>>> >>>> information
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> Leica Users Group.
>>> >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more  
>>> information
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Leica Users Group.
>>> >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more  
>>> information
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Leica Users Group.
>>> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more  
>>> information
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Don
>> don.dory@gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
> Chris Saganich, Sr. Physicist
> Weill Medical College of Cornell University
> New York Presbyterian Hospital
> chs2018@med.cornell.edu
> Ph. 212.746.6964
> Fax. 212.746.4800
> Office A-0049
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information


In reply to: Message from pklein at 2alpha.net (Peter Klein) ([Leica] 'cron 50mm DR on M8)
Message from Frank.Dernie at btinternet.com (Frank Dernie) ([Leica] 'cron 50mm DR on M8)
Message from kididdoc at cox.net (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] 'cron 50mm DR on M8)
Message from Frank.Dernie at btinternet.com (Frank Dernie) ([Leica] 'cron 50mm DR on M8)
Message from kididdoc at cox.net (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] 'cron 50mm DR on M8)
Message from len-1 at comcast.net (Leonard Taupier) ([Leica] 'cron 50mm DR on M8)
Message from kididdoc at cox.net (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] 'cron 50mm DR on M8)
Message from don.dory at gmail.com (Don Dory) ([Leica] 'cron 50mm DR on M8)
Message from chs2018 at med.cornell.edu (Chris Saganich) ([Leica] 'cron 50mm DR on M8)