Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2006/12/13

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Subject: [Leica] lurker speaks re: High ISO thread
From: douglas.sharp at gmx.de (Douglas Sharp)
Date: Wed Dec 13 09:32:17 2006
References: <BAY116-F38AA84F6D4FE33D2EB85589FD60@phx.gbl>

Mark, I agree, an unfortunate translation.
A cultural/linguistic/semantic problem - "Ever" comes over a lot 
stronger than "Previously". Geschichte can mean both "Story" and 
"History". And they are not clearly  claiming that ISO 2500 alone is 
doing it either.
In my view, a very poor (as are many) Leica translation
Douglas
G2E Translations, Hannover

MARK DAVISON wrote:
> Peter,
>
> I think you protest too much.  The claim Leica makes is this, taken 
> from the M8 brochure:
>
> "The highest film speed settings of up to
> ISO 2500 now allow much more detailed
> pictures to be taken than was ever possible
> with analog films. As a result, the M8
> opens up a new chapter in the history of
> available light photography."
>
> It is not a clearly worded claim, but you can see how it might set up 
> the expectation that the M8 has superior low-light performance to all 
> existing digital cameras.
>
> I myself have witnessed blotchy blue channel noise in the M8 at ISO 
> 1250, and strange pattern noise (small horizontal and vertical bars) 
> in RAW files.  You do not see these things in ISO 1600 color negative 
> film.  This new chapter has more twists and turns than you might expect.
>
> In addition, if you take long exposure (2 to 4 secs) with the lens cap 
> on, you will see much more dark-frame noise than you would expect, 
> pointing to a deficiency in the dark frame noise subtraction 
> techniques. If you run the same experiment with a Nikon D200 with long 
> exposure noise reduction enabled, you get no visible noise at all!
>
> I look forward to the return of my M8 from Solms so I can investigate 
> how the new and improved M8 performs at high ISO.
>
> Mark Davison
>
>
>
>> From: Peter Klein <pklein@2alpha.net>
>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug@leica-users.org>
>> To: lug@leica-users.org
>> Subject: Re: [Leica] lurker speaks re: High ISO thread
>> Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 15:50:42 -0800
>>
>> Leica never said any such thing.  But there is a body of Internet 
>> noise out there, to the effect that unless the M8 was significantly 
>> superior to the 5D or IDS Mk II in all aspects, especially ISO 1600 
>> and 3200 noise performance, that the M8 and Leica did not deserve to 
>> exist, and should deservedly go down in flames to the derision of 
>> digiterati everywhere.
>>
>> If this is the case, why are Nikon, Pentax, Olympus, Sony, etc. 
>> allowed to exist?
>>
>> The whole idea is, quite frankly, bovine effluent. It's a combination 
>> of anti-Leica reverse-elitism and the hegemony of Canon marketing.  
>> Whether the M8 is suitable for one's style of photography or too 
>> expensive for your budget is another matter.  But a rangefinder is 
>> not an SLR, the Canon look is not the be-all and end-all of 
>> aesthetics, and a camera optimized for resolution with a body of 
>> existing, wonderful optics deserves better than it's been getting in 
>> some quarters.
>>
>> If the M8 were being marketed as an all-around picture-taking tool 
>> for the masses, such comparisons might carry a bit more weight.  But 
>> there are reasons to take a small, light, nimble camera with fast 
>> lenses that focus where *you* tell them to, over much bigger, 
>> heavier, (acoustically) noisier machines that don't do wide angles so 
>> well.
>>
>> Canons are fine machines.  So is the M8, for different reasons.  If 
>> people want to talk about the relative merits of various design 
>> choices with respect to various kinds of photography, fine.  But this 
>> "Leica should die because the 5D has less noise at ISO 3200" is just 
>> plain dumb.
>>
>> --Peter
>>
>>> As far as I know Leica made no such claim.  I think this was a wish 
>>> of some one hee ar on another list.
>>>
>>> Gene
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------- Original message from "Robert Jagitsch" 
>>> <robert.jagitsch@gmail.com>: --------------
>>>
>>>
>>> > Lastly, I would like to see where the factory claimed that ISO 2500
>>> > performance would be equal to Canon 5D performance at ISO 3200. What
>>> > did the factory claim, can someone point me to it?
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>

In reply to: Message from davison_m at msn.com (MARK DAVISON) ([Leica] lurker speaks re: High ISO thread)